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Renewed Labour
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NewForester


Posts: 377
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #1
27-09-2010 12:19 PM

Now that the results are in, I was interested to see how Lewisham's votes were cast and came across this blog via Google. Does it matter that Jim Dowd and Heidi Alexander backed David over Ed? Wink

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #2
27-09-2010 01:04 PM

Not sure how this matters. Are you suggesting , in the unlikely scenario that EM , wins the next election , then he will refuse any grants for Lewisham. I cannot believe he is that petty.

I doubt due to age if JD will fight another election.

Tony Blair is the only one of Labour's last SIX leaders to win a British General Election. Before TB have to go back to HW ( pound in your pocket )

Also the fact that EM would not be leader if not for the Trades Unions I think says a lot. What an incredible voting system where some people had 12 votes. I trust we will not adopt this was Westminster Elections.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #3
27-09-2010 03:12 PM

The Conservatives have already adopted it in Hackney.

(Seriously, Brian, it's about the first thing I've ever agreed with you about, and I'm a Labour member. It's ridiculous that being a member of the Socialist Jelly Bean Appreciation Society gets you another vote. The trade unions I'm not that bothered about, ordinary men and women, but multiple votes is just not on.)

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #4
27-09-2010 04:01 PM

Good that we have a party member on the forum. Ordinary members of all parties are thin on the ground.
I , like many , joined the Gang of 4 or Social Democrats in early 80's at their birth when they briefly looked like making a major change.
Believe it or not have voted Labour plus all other main stream parties in my life. Always vote as very important.
Yes very strange voting system , Hariet harperson's seemed to have 4 votes , but her husband more.
I would imagine even the Dear Leader would be impressed with this system.

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dita-on-tees


Posts: 46
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #5
27-09-2010 10:08 PM

Also an ordinary party member and one who voted for Ed....

I think the voting system is interesting as I think it was meant to extend votes to all unionised workers, not just those who could/chose to be part of the Labour Party. I generally feel uncomfortable about people having multiple votes.

I am more concerned that prospective MPs are not coming from the rank and file of the party or indeed the constituencies in which they stand, but from the party elite. And whilst this may produce educated and erudite MPs, I do not doubt that they care for their constituents, I dont think they are so heavily ingrained in the local issues.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #6
28-09-2010 11:10 AM

Dita
You have summed it up. All unionised workers.

What percentage of the workforce is unionised. Take away the state sector those who work in Private Sector , the percentage much lower.

I have never joined a union and in none of the jobs I was in were there any active unions and in fact my career would have been affected by trying to join a union.
Surely by penalising your employer by taking action you leave your employer with less money . This does not make any sense at all. You want a prosperous employer.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #7
28-09-2010 02:15 PM

Quote:
You want a prosperous employer.

Sorry Brian but that actually made me laugh out loud!

Yes you want a prosperous employer - one who actually shares out a reasonable proportion of this wealth to the people who created it.

Not sure what unions do now, but certainly historically they have fought for fairer wages and better/safer conditions for their members.

But a series of right wing governments have taken their teeth.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #8
28-09-2010 02:48 PM

So you would applaud strikes which nearly bankrupt employers and consequently no money to pay employees.
Not sure this makes sense. Prosperous employers are surely best for the employees.
#
Take this stupid action by BA stewards , who by all accounts are world leaders in wages and benefits in their profession.
What possible benefit is there in making BA poorer. I think BA have been more than generous offering to partly reinstate generous travel concessions , when staff were clearly told they would lose them in the event of action.

Rail Companies should take away travel concessions and generous pension contributions from Sir Robert Crowe's members if they strike.

I worked for 43 years without taking any industrial action of any sort. I am sure most people out there are the same. Always the same people disrupting the people.

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ForestHillier


Posts: 490
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #9
28-09-2010 03:17 PM

Well i have to agree with Perryman as without unions, the working man would be still in the workhouse of victorian days gone by

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piglet


Posts: 104
Joined: Apr 2010
Post: #10
28-09-2010 03:26 PM

I voted for Ed.

Is Jim Dowd at the conference?

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roz


Posts: 1,793
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #11
28-09-2010 04:22 PM

I don't know about Jim Dowd but where did all the political commentators go? Just watching Ed's speech this afternoon at the Labour Party conference televised on the Parliament Channel which received no political commentary whatsoever, unlike the good old days with Vivien White and Jeremy Vine. Is this a cost cutting exercise or just a symptom of 24/7 tv? Also there is this annoying habit of not broadcasing the introductions - Ed's introduction was not shown and the sound transmission arrived just in time for the start of his speech.
But what a great speech! Ed, you're definitely ahead!

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #12
29-09-2010 01:34 AM

Take this stupid action by BA stewards , who by all accounts are world leaders in wages and benefits in their profession.

What are these 'all accounts'? The ones you read in right-wing British newspapers? Have you read any other accounts?

I'm guessing not.

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ryananglem


Posts: 167
Joined: Apr 2009
Post: #13
29-09-2010 09:18 AM

The accounts that I heard of were that some staff were paid a salary of something like 11 K with the allowance of free travel. If they are leaders for the industry then its a shame that other airlines dont have strong unions.

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roz


Posts: 1,793
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #14
29-09-2010 11:05 AM

I think the public has a general image of airline work being glamorous. It probably isn't from what I've heard. I doubt whether the Unions would have taken the action and had such support from the workers if there wasn't a good case to answer.
Its still a bit unique to hear about that particular level and degree of industrial action these days. I doubt if there is a union at Ryanair.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #15
29-09-2010 12:43 PM

I see Hariet Harperson is clapping an attack on a policy that she voted for.

A pity Labour may be losing good people like Alistair Darling and David M. Very sad .


Comments on BA miss the only point of importance. BA cannot afford to pay staff more than like of Lufty and AF , let alone Ryan Air etc.

They are in a commercial business.

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dita-on-tees


Posts: 46
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #16
29-09-2010 09:07 PM

I wholeheartedly support workers access to unions, most people only experience the tough side of unions e.g the strikes. but without unions, as Forest Hillier notes, we'd be back in the dark ages with no rights for workers. The only place I have ever worked where there was a commitment to work life balance was where there was an active union.

I think there were lots of interesting points in Ed's speech, he is something of an unapologetic idealist - the sentiment of that it is an atrocity that some people earn more in a month than a care worker in a year. It says quite a lot about our society. Interesting referest to Sheffield Forgemasters too, which is Nick Cleggs area. I like the sentiment about a change in approach to politics and, maybe naive, I believe it. I do feel like this is a new era for labour and he will be an effect leader of the opposition (hopefully for a shorter time as possibleClosedeyes)

As for BA, well I am depressed with companies flogging their staff to appease detached shareholders and award senior management massive bonus.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #17
30-09-2010 12:02 PM

Dita

The worker has a right to leave the company and find alternative employment. A right that was not available to many in the Dark Ages ( I assume you mean from about 400AD to about 800 AD).

I did not know you were on first name terms with Mr Milliband.
Of course not great that some bankers get more in a week than a care worker gets in a year. What did Labour do about this since 1997?
We live in a global world and unless we pay some of these people , what I agree seems ridiculous sums, evidence points that they will move to Basel, Shanghai , New York etc.
This is all very idealistic but how does he now propose to sove it after 13 wasted years?
I would imagine next election will be May 15 as Lib Dems have no money to fight another election. Only posibility of earlier election is if back bench Conservatives bring the government down.
I am waiting for you to tell me how BA's wages and benefits compare with other International airlines.

If you are going to be stuck with Mr M please at least get rid of Mrs Drohmey ( not sure of spelling ) , or Harlady.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #18
30-09-2010 01:33 PM

Quote:
What did [new] Labour do about this since 1997?


You are certainly right on this point, brian - absolutely nothing. I[/quote]n fact inequality greatly increased and one of the reasons they are in opposition now.

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ForestHillier


Posts: 490
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #19
30-09-2010 01:43 PM

Oh I see - so we are going back to the Victorian times, if you dont like the job, leave and go where, as there are loads of jobs vacant

So what is Brian saying that the Unions did nothing for the workforce ??, I beg to differ as we would all be back in the workhouse it it were not for them, does he [ brian ] know his history, Tolpuddle Matyrs were imprisoned for belonging to a union

Yes New Labour made mistakes like all Governments do - yet it was better living/working under them than Thatchers regime

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michael


Posts: 3,210
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #20
30-09-2010 02:06 PM

Brian: I am waiting for you to tell me how BA's wages and benefits compare with other International airlines.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/uk/British-Airways-strike-39Very-few.6167829.jp Wrote:
The average total pay for BA main crew including allowances is similar to Virgin, about 22,000 (12,000 to 14,000 basic plus 6,000 to 8,000 in allowances). Very few staff at the top reach the 50,000 peak quoted by BA to the press. Senior staff in BA will have served twice the length of Virgin's most senior staff, which explains why BA staff can be more expensive.


Brian: I did not know you were on first name terms with Mr Milliband.
Which Mr Miliband? (note: just the one 'l' for each of the brothers)

Brian: The worker has a right to leave the company and find alternative employment.
But during a recession employers are welcome to slash pay (while maintaining dividends and share bonuses) knowing that it is not always easy for the 'little people' to find alternative employment. British Airways is a company that has already asked (and got agreement from many of) their employees to work for a month with no pay. Whe you ask staff to make this type of sacrifice you cannot expect goodwill to last when you want to cut their salary and perks even further.

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