SE23.com - The Official Forum for Forest Hill & Honor Oak, London SE23
Online since 2002  -  10,000+ members

Home | SE23 Topics | Local Businesses | Wider Topics | Offered/Wanted/Lost/Found | Site Feedback | Advertising | Contact
Geddes Hairdressing & Barbering Studio One Armstrong & Co Solicitors


Poll: Do you object to this application for Planning Permission?
This poll is closed.
Yes 69.23% 18 69.23%
No 30.77% 8 30.77%
Total 26 votes 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Post Reply  Post Topic 
Pages (2): « First [1] 2 Next > Last »
Threat to Conservation Area
Author Message
Teresa


Posts: 29
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #1
13-01-2008 01:26 AM

No 1 Manor Mount has put in another application for permission to alter and convert their family home. They wish to demolish the back of the house and build a four storey extension to the rear and a three storey extension to the side to make 3 one bedroom flats, 4 two bedroom flat and one three bedroom flats. They also wish to turn the front garden into a large car park. An announcement about this is attached to a number of lamp posts on Manor Mount. The application reference is DC/07/67548 and the Planning Officer in charge is Mr James Parry. This extensive construction is planned to stand directly next to 1 1/2 Manor Mount or 1 A as it is described in the plans. 1 1/2 Manor Mount is a small pretty detatched coach house, set back off the road. The construction will extend beyond the front of this house and beyond the back changing its aspect, character and affecting the amenity considerably. It will also contravene the foundations of the Conservation Area document drawn up by Lewisham Council. I urge anyone who cares about the neighbourhood and wants to conserve Forest Hill's character to write to the planning Office and object to this application.

Find all posts by this user Reply
robwinton


Posts: 335
Joined: Jun 2006
Post: #2
13-01-2008 09:43 AM

Thanks Teresa

There are some related comments here on a previous thread:

http://www.se23.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=312

The thing with Manor Mount is that it already has a great mix of styles and eras (in a positive way), so I imagine that the "conservation" argument here might be a little difficult. However, I'm sure the neighbours will have something to say about the impact of such a drastic change to the building

Find all posts by this user Reply
Teresa


Posts: 29
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #3
13-01-2008 11:24 AM

robwinton Wrote:
Thanks Teresa

There are some related comments here on a previous thread:

http://www.se23.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=312

The thing with Manor Mount is that it already has a great mix of styles and eras (in a positive way), so I imagine that the "conservation" argument here might be a little difficult. However, I'm sure the neighbours will have something to say about the impact of such a drastic change to the building


Dear Rob The application does not comply with the articles of conservation from the Planning Department of Lewisham Council. I have already visited most of the people who live on Manor Mount and everyone is very distressed about the application. Especially because we fought so hard to get the previous one thrown out. Many people are writing letters to support my arguments and everyone has signed my petition. There are a lot of interesting houses on Manor Mount but this would be the wanton destruction of a Victorian house causing an out of character and over large building next to another small Victorian house, overshadowing it and possibly damaging the structure irreparably by deep excavations next to the the building.

Find all posts by this user Reply
nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #4
13-01-2008 12:17 PM

Teresa, would you be able to set up an online petition so people on here would be able to sign it if they wish?

Find all posts by this user Reply
Teresa


Posts: 29
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #5
13-01-2008 12:22 PM

nevermodern Wrote:
Teresa, would you be able to set up an online petition so people on here would be able to sign it if they wish?

HOW DO I DO THIS?

Find all posts by this user Reply
Ghis


Posts: 321
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #6
13-01-2008 01:00 PM

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/

Using the link above. Then once you have set up the petition, put the link of your petition here and you should get a lot of people willing to sign.

Find all posts by this user Reply
michael


Posts: 3,210
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #7
14-01-2008 03:16 AM

Ghis Wrote:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/

Using the link above. Then once you have set up the petition, put the link of your petition here and you should get a lot of people willing to sign.


I thought this site was only for petitions to the Prime Minister (although it may have changed). I would recommend http://www.gopetition.com/ which I have used to set up petitions in the past and is relatively easy to setup.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Teresa


Posts: 29
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #8
14-01-2008 09:20 AM

michael Wrote:

Ghis Wrote:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/

Using the link above. Then once you have set up the petition, put the link of your petition here and you should get a lot of people willing to sign.


I thought this site was only for petitions to the Prime Minister (although it may have changed). I would recommend http://www.gopetition.com/ which I have used to set up petitions in the past and is relatively easy to setup.


Thank you,
the go petition site is much better. I have made a petition with them and it can be signed on http://www.gopetition.com/online/16338.html

Find all posts by this user Reply
Mrjamon


Posts: 46
Joined: Jun 2007
Post: #9
14-01-2008 11:09 AM

Done. Quick and simple.
I urge everyone to do the same please and help conserve Forest Hill's character with every opportunity.

Find all posts by this user Reply
IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #10
15-01-2008 02:52 PM

I'm not certain what I feel about the planning application. If I lived close by I would be cautious of the proposal but I'm not sure whether my objections would carry any weight in the planning department's considerations (studied T&C Planning for 3 years at uni but most of those brain cells have died since).

It is a large development but it could also be argued that the site is large and underused at present. Also it could be said that the structure at 1 1/2 Manor Mount is unusually small compared with all but the one on the plot 3 to the right on Manor Mount - rather than the structure at number 1 being too large. It's difficult to tell from the fairly basic line drawings but the frontage of the side extension looks reasonably sympathetic to the existing building too.

I live close to the flats recently built on two existing plots in Taymount Rise and I was concerned both before and throughout the development. I've got to say though that the finished building is actually quite interesting and in a city where we have a shortage of residential accommodation, replacing two small houses on two largish (and quite untidy) plots was probably a better compromise than using green/greenish space (as in the much discussed area further up Honor Oak Road). That said, no one has moved into the flats on Taymount Rise yet so quite what impact that will have only time will tell.

All I'd say is if you do sign the petition, please do so having studied the planning application first.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Teresa


Posts: 29
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #11
15-01-2008 03:41 PM

Thank you for your reply. I would like to remind you that Manor Mount is within the conservation area of Forest hill, I do not believe this is the case with Taymount Rise. A conservation area is not an area designated for new housing, it is an area which is to be protected and conserved. There are plenty of developments going on in Forest Hill, this will not be of the low cost type of housing which is needed in the area, because Manor Mount is the most expensive roads in the area. This proposal will caused out of scale and overbearing development, purely for monetary gain. I think that you have not looked carefully enough at the plans for this proposal. It will not be to create two buildings, it will be to create one large one, by removing the back wall of the present Victorian property and building out to the rear of the property and by removing the side wall of the present property and building out towards 1 1/2. Both these proposed extensions will reach out beyond the front and the back of 1 1/2 Manor mount causing a loss of amenity and light. They also propose to build a large car park at the front and will have to remove all the trees and shrubs at the front and many at the back. The plans do not adequately represent the proposal and do not show 1 1/2 Manor mount on the front elevation diagram. A planning Surveyor has already looked at the plans and one of the the most important elements which affects no 1 1/2 is that deep excavations would have to take place beside the property which would almost certainly cause fatal subsidence. Even removing the garage which lies directly beside the side wall of 1 1/2 could cause subsidence. The house next door to No 1 has created only a minor extension in relation to this proposal and this has caused subsidence to No 1 which has led the present owners to do extensive building work to try and counter it. The house next door to No.3 which has had a small extension and a car park has also been greatly undermined by the extension which has caused a serious groundwater problem. I am not only deeply concerned by the affect on my own property by this proposal I am also concerned that it will affect my neighbourhood adversley. All my neighbours are very distressed by the proposal and everyone has signed a petition. We went through the same ordeal last year and that proposal was thrown out. It has not been radically changed. No one I have spoken to in Manor Mount wants this development to go ahead and we are appealing to everyone in Forest Hill to support us by signing the petition above.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Mrjamon


Posts: 46
Joined: Jun 2007
Post: #12
15-01-2008 04:07 PM

Bravo Teresa.

sign, sign, sign...

http://www.gopetition.com/online/16338.html

Find all posts by this user Reply
Teresa


Posts: 29
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #13
15-01-2008 04:14 PM

Mrjamon Wrote:
Bravo Teresa.

sign, sign, sign...

http://www.gopetition.com/online/16338.html


Thank you for your support Mrjamon!!!

Find all posts by this user Reply
IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #14
16-01-2008 11:16 AM

Sorry Teresa - as I tried to make clear, if I lived close to the site I would have my concerns too. You certainly seem to have done your homework and if your structural survey evidence is as strong as you make it sound I would be surprised if the application will be approved.

A Conservation Area does not restrict new housing as you suggest, it is there to apply stricter planning controls to help preserve areas that are deemed to have special architechtural or historical interest. They mean that planning permission is harder to come by but not that it is impossible to get it. If the application doesn't properly address issues of size, design, materials and space between buildings then it will fail.

In terms of size I still maintain that the scale of the proposed development would not alone cause the application to fail as it is not bigger than other properties both in Manor Mount and surrounding roads in the Conservation Area. 1 1/2 Manor Mount is one of the smallest structures in the area and comparing the two alone is not what the planning department will do. What little the application gives of the proposed design and materials looks to be in the right ball-park but there isn't a lot to go on. I am surprised that, in a Conservation Area, they have applied to fell trees that dont appear to be in the way but again, permission can be given for tree works in a Conservation Area. Space-wise, there will definitely be a reduction in space between the proposed development and 1 1/2 Manor Mount but again not to levels below which are common in Manor Mount and the surrounding roads.

From my (limited but not non-existent) experience of planning legislation and applications I think the application in question is pretty light in detail given that the site falls within a conservation area and has been previously refused - so I'd be surprised if permission was granted.

I do wish you good luck and I do understand your concerns. But I repeat my earlier sentiment that people should make their own, informed decisions (one way or the other) rather than just offering a basic, well-meaning objection - after all, those are useless to you in the eyes if the planning department when they make their decision.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Teresa


Posts: 29
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #15
16-01-2008 11:50 AM

Thank you. But on inspection of the application my planning surveyor disagrees with your points about size.

Find all posts by this user Reply
IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #16
16-01-2008 02:44 PM

I would not claim to know better than a practicing surveyor, my skills have long since rusted. Again, good luck.

Find all posts by this user Reply
hilltopgeneral


Posts: 156
Joined: Mar 2004
Post: #17
16-01-2008 03:18 PM

Let me guess.. you live in 1 1/2 Manor Mount?

Find all posts by this user Reply
Anotherjohn


Posts: 347
Joined: May 2005
Post: #18
16-01-2008 09:20 PM

Interesting.
My father-in-law lived in your quaint old house after having converted it from the coach house that served the large house on the corner of Honor Oak Road. I reckon the proposed side extension to No.1 is very in-keeping with its surroundings but, in Planning terms, my guess is that it will fail at least on the grounds that it rather impinges on your place. It appears that the gap between the 2-storey flank walls will be about a metre apart, which would tend not to be allowed in a normal street scene let alone in this particular Conservation Area. Having lived in the place for a few years myself, I think it would be a bit of a shame if you become crowded-out by the proposed development. When faced with these types of situations it's always best to prepare one's self for the worst, but at least here you're backing the fight with your petition, which you'll no doubt use as a tool to get the backing of local conservation groups and Councillors who may in turn be able to assert some pressure on the Planners' before their final decision is made.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Teresa


Posts: 29
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #19
16-01-2008 09:49 PM

Anotherjohn

How strange that your father-in-law should have lived at 1 1/2. The conversion to a house was done very well. The fact that it was a coach house and not a proper house is another of the reasons that the side extension could prove to be fatal to the house. The surveyor has said that it is likely that the foundations are very shallow and any excavating right beside the house, which it would require, could be devastating to the structure...

Find all posts by this user Reply
Cellar Door


Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #20
16-01-2008 10:42 PM

I have enjoyed reading IWereAbsolutelyFuming's thoughtful observations on this thread about this planning application.

One point that I felt I resonated with is "...that people should make their own, informed decisions (one way or the other) rather than just offering a basic, well-meaning objection...".
Alas, this is an action that I have done in the past. And I appreciate the reminder now that we should raise our awareness a little on this approach.

I also pass on my best wishes to Teresa with her endeavours to petition this planning application.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Pages (2): « First [1] 2 Next > Last »

Friends of Blythe Hill Fields


Possibly Related Topics ...
Topic: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Proposed Conservation Area: Perry Vale ‘Christmas’ houses and further north blushingsnail 2 1,189 25-10-2018 06:13 PM
Last Post: StuartG
  Conservation area extension petersutton01 3 2,632 17-08-2010 09:05 PM
Last Post: davidwhiting
  Conservation Area baggydave 52 30,481 15-10-2009 06:17 PM
Last Post: jacksprat
  Conservation area breaches loca 20 13,171 21-04-2009 12:46 PM
Last Post: brian
  Conservation area, planning and ... the pools? ForestGump 3 2,740 17-06-2008 02:36 PM
Last Post: NewForester