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boundary between honor oak and forest hill?
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Perryman


Posts: 810
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #61
09-07-2010 02:06 AM

This mid C18 map fragment shows the area Honor Oak (Oak of Arrnon) some 150 years after Queen E's honourable and elderly frolicking.
   

The map suggests that only the wooded area is honor oak, and it is a large area, covering most of the square roughly bounded by Wood Vale in the West, a prototype Honor Oak Pk (Rd) in the North, Brockley Rise in the East and London Rd/Stanstead Rd to the South.

More precisely, it looks like a strip of land east of Wood Vale was cleared of trees, so if you are West of Tewsbury/Netherby then you probably are not in Honor Oak nor if you live on Sydenham Common ie South of Westwood Pk/Ewelme Rd.
So perhaps Honor Oak Rd, when built, cut right through the area designated as Honor Oak! Which is reasonable.

It is reasonable to think the wooded parcel of land north of Honor Oak Pk (Rd) is also Honor Oak.

With so many old trees in this area then, I wonder if much later on, the one tree left standing on One tree hill was designated the symbolic focus for our historical wishful thinking?
And so the actual oak tree that was present at the 'royal resting' might still be alive in someone's garden in the above described areas.

PS Also, you'll notice Forest Hill does not exist on this map - it is just an administrative area after all. Perry Vale Ward is well established at the bottom of the image of course.

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lottie


Posts: 45
Joined: Mar 2009
Post: #62
09-07-2010 08:54 PM

shzl400 Are you implying intimacy is dead at age 68? this could be a whole new thread!!

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PVP


Posts: 271
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #63
11-07-2010 07:32 PM

Some good maps, forest hill exists by 1799:

http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/lewisham/f...99-map.htm

Things have changed somewhat in the next 70 years:

http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/images/lew...8-2000.jpg

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isaglanzer


Posts: 55
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #64
12-07-2010 08:57 AM

Although here in this lovely 1786 map the unwooded parts of both areas are I think included as Westwood Common (presumably the origin of Westwood Park):

http://www.oldlondonmaps.com/cary/cary36.html

Then Forest Hill but no Honor Oak on this 1819 map:

http://www.londonancestor.com/maps/map-leigh.htm

and this 1885 map of the Borough of Camberwell seems to attach the name Forest Hill to the whole area, but Honor Oak appears just as the name of the railway station:
http://www.londonancestor.com/maps/bc-camber-s.htm

Maybe Forest Hill looks like the most enduring name for the whole area, but quite a lot more wobbly and less established than Sydenham or Brockley or Dulwich, by the look of it?

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michael


Posts: 3,224
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #65
12-07-2010 09:22 AM

It is interesting watching the name of Rushey Green change over time: Rush Green, Rushley Green, Rushey Green.

And I used to think that Downham was a depressing name, but better than the previous name of Mount Misery!

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PVP


Posts: 271
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #66
12-07-2010 09:32 AM

According to the sage of wiki, Forest Hill is a modern creation of marketing types:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_Hill,_London

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lacb


Posts: 624
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #67
23-09-2010 12:25 PM

I followed this thread with interest and especially like some of the historic map links.

Had cause to think about this again when I recently looked at my AtoZ. I noticed it has Honor Oak and Honor Oak Park marked as two distinct areas. The former centred, on a point on One Tree Hill, North-West of Walters Way, the latter roughly where Stillness School is. These are of course approximate as the area names by necessity hover over green space.

I think it is also interesting to note that the 63 bus which claims to go to Honor Oak, really does in the sense that it turns round where the old railway station used to be.

Based on all this it would not be unreasonable to call the area, at least as far as traffic lights at Dunstans and Forest Hill Road, Honor Oak as I think at least one poster suggested. Beyond that is an area which includes Peckham Rye that a lot of people, including myself, call East Dulwich. A much longer term resident than myself I know grew up calling all that Peckham.

I realise that there is no right or wrong answer to all of this as boundaries and usage change over time. Just thought I would throw this in the mix.

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Contrary Mary


Posts: 124
Joined: Oct 2008
Post: #68
23-09-2010 01:08 PM

I second lacb: "Peckham" is the missing link. ("East Dulwich" has crept steadily eastwards throughout the area's gentrification - if you really want to annoy residents of genuine LL + tributaries ED, do it in reverse and call ED "West Peckham" Rofl)

I grew up calling the area between Brenchley Gardens and the start of Rye Lane "Peckham Rye" and always thought of the area northwards from Rye Lane as Peckham itself. Because this is so close to the top of the hill, I also used it as the reference for clueless North Londoners, as in "Up the hill from Peckham Rye" Only Fools and Horses and the memory of the mid-80s riots generally ensured that they would then know where I was talking about better than when I mentioned Brixton, Lewisham (blank looks), or Dulwich.

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gingernuts


Posts: 505
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #69
23-09-2010 01:37 PM

Up to about 50 years ago Peckham was considered quite 'posh' and the place to go for high street shopping. It was certainly a better post code than East Dulwich which was quite run down at the time. How things have changed!

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michael


Posts: 3,224
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #70
23-09-2010 02:26 PM

'Posh' and 'Peckham' go together like a Spice Girl and a footballer.

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Hawkesrah


Posts: 69
Joined: Aug 2009
Post: #71
23-09-2010 04:59 PM

The SE23 postcode is strictly Forest Hill. Honor Oak hasnt got a postcode because its a part of Forest Hill.

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lacb


Posts: 624
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #72
23-09-2010 06:40 PM

Actually, I think that Honor Oak hasn't got a separate inbound postcode because it shares a sorting office with Forest Hill. Similarly Parson's Green is still a name of an area even though it shares SW6 with Fulham.

Other examples abound. The name of an area isn't the same as its postal district IMO.

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #73
23-09-2010 08:21 PM

Perhaps, in London, the railway station you are nearest to is one indicator. For example, although I live in SE26, I joined this forum (as well as the SE26 one) because we use Forest Hill rather than Sydenham station. (We're also in Forest Hill ward, but wards are, alas, like parliamentary constituencies, purely political divisions and often seem to bear little relationship with real communities. One of the downsides of the principle that the vote of everyone in the country must have the same weight wherever they live.)

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Hawkesrah


Posts: 69
Joined: Aug 2009
Post: #74
23-09-2010 09:12 PM

Honor Oak got its name from Queen Elizabeth 1 who had a tea party under an Oak tree in the area. It was in her honor

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lacb


Posts: 624
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #75
23-09-2010 09:29 PM

Quite. This thread has indicated to me just this is in area naming terms: Honor Oak is the more established place name historically. Forest Hill and the seemingly ever expanding East Dulwich are more recent inventions.

I do have a leaning towards Robin's thinking on this too - the nearest station is a good indicator. In this case though, there used to be two stations either side of a hill they were named after.

Am not one to try and turn the clock back but some of the current usage is I reckon area prestige led and Honor Oak and Forest Hill have some clout in this regard too, especially post Overground links.

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michael


Posts: 3,224
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #76
23-09-2010 09:37 PM

If we are going by stations that once existed I'm not sure if I live in Dartmouth Arms or my closest station Lordship Lane. For the moment I'm going to stick to living in Forest Hill.

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