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boundary between honor oak and forest hill?
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Brockley_Babe


Posts: 57
Joined: Jul 2009
Post: #21
06-07-2010 02:08 PM

Brockley is part of the name of the Road - I am in SE23 Thumbup

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NewForester


Posts: 377
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #22
06-07-2010 06:25 PM

I'm not sure that anybody really knows, but I have always been mildly bemused by the locations of Forest Hill and Honor Oak Park in Google maps. I don't think they would agree with anyone's definition, although with Sydenham Baptist Chapel at one time being located in the heart of Forest Hill, the definitions are obviously very flexible Wink.

As for michael's definition, doesn't half of Forest Hill include Perry Vale?

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #23
06-07-2010 07:17 PM

Personally I'm still bemused as to why Forest Hill Boys go to school in Sydenham and Sydenham Girls School is clearly in Forest Hill.

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gingernuts


Posts: 505
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #24
06-07-2010 07:20 PM

Yes, Michael has included Perry Vale in his boundary - which of course is separate district entirely. Of course there is always the question of why Honor Oak Road is in Forest Hill.

So where does Catford start? That should be a lot easier?

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rbmartin


Posts: 817
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #25
06-07-2010 07:31 PM

Quote:
Personally I'm still bemused as to why Forest Hill Boys go to school in Sydenham and Sydenham Girls School is clearly in Forest Hill.


Both FH and Brent Knoll School are just inside Forest Hill, although Sydenham is right next door. It's probably an equal time to walk to either FH or Sydenham stations too.[/quote]

Sydenham School has a SE26 postcode, despite being nearer to Forest Hill.

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michael


Posts: 3,227
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #26
06-07-2010 08:35 PM

'Perry Vale' is only an administrative area. It is not a real area, just like Rushey Green, College, Chaucer, or Faraday (the last three being in various parts of Southwark).

People in Perry Vale ward (previously called 'Forest Hill') are just as much in Forest Hill as people in the old 'Horniman' ward (now called 'Forest Hill'). According to ward boundaries Dalmain School and Honor Oak Park are in Crofton Park. Lower Sydenham is in Bellingham, Sydenham Hill is in College while the Sydenham Hill Estate is in Forest Hill, and Honor Oak Estate is in Brockley.

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isaglanzer


Posts: 55
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #27
06-07-2010 08:59 PM

Thank you very much for all these responses to my original posting - I was hoping for a lively and informative discussion and am not disappointed! We will sleep easier tonight having established where we actually are.

What about the Hornimans as a term for this area - only for estate agents? And I guess Tewkesbury Lodge is just historical and not really in current useage?

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rbmartin


Posts: 817
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #28
06-07-2010 09:09 PM

Another one for you. The area surrounding Forest Hill Road in SE22. In the Camberwell and Peckham constituency, has the East Dulwich postcode, in the Borough of Southwark, but I call it Honor Oak as much as the parade of shops by Honor Oak Park station.

Also the boundary of Dulwich and Forest Hill. I've used Wood Vale as the boundary to the east of LL. However as the Southwark owned Sydenham Hill Estate is in FH, I suppose the Dulwich part starts where the Cadet Centre is in Lordship Lane?

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mrcee


Posts: 128
Joined: May 2010
Post: #29
06-07-2010 09:17 PM

Being a north londoner moving to Honor Oak, I have logically carved the area very similar to Michael's Map. I tend to use Railway/Tube Stations to mark an area as it makes it easier when people come to visit you from outside the area.

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Ghis


Posts: 321
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #30
06-07-2010 10:12 PM

An attempt at my map of Honor Oak (including cheeky inclusion of Honor Oak Pub):

Honor Oak Map

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philip


Posts: 32
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #31
06-07-2010 11:02 PM

As ladywotlunches says, the Woodvale Estate is built on the site of the old Honor Oak railway station - if that's not in Honor Oak then nothing is. Of course, etymologically, Honor Oak=One Tree Hill. According to the buses, Langton Rise bus stop is in Honor Oak and that sounds about right - if it's quicker to walk to Forest Hill Station then it's Forest Hill, if it's quicker to walk to HOP, then its Honor Oak.

http://bit.ly/9bhJ4F

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rbmartin


Posts: 817
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #32
06-07-2010 11:19 PM

Philip's map is the closest to what I think most people consider to be Honor Oak which includes the area inside SE22 which goes down to Peckham Rye.

Incidentally the terminus of the 63 bus is "Honor Oak - Forest Hill Tavern" which is inside SE22.

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Ghis


Posts: 321
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #33
06-07-2010 11:39 PM

Good map Philip! I like that better than my attempt.

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michael


Posts: 3,227
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #34
07-07-2010 08:27 AM

I'm going to have to disagree with some of the boundaries on Philip's map. Just because something mentions Honor Oak in its name does not mean it is Honor Oak.
Underhill Road is East Dulwich and so, in my opinion is Therapia Road and the surrounding roads.
Tewksbury Lodge Estate is entirely in Forest Hill, not split across different neighbourhood.
The Honor Oak Estate is in Brockley and is virtually cut off from real Honor Oak.

Not that it really matters, at least we have three options and we can all pick our favourite. With a few more examples we could have a vote - although I don't think the forum supports the AV system, so any result would be completely unfair.

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PVP


Posts: 271
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #35
07-07-2010 09:36 AM

I would say train stations now generally define the centre of any given area. Before the trains I believe the name for the entire area was Sydenham Hill? Has Steve Grindlay ever enlightened us on this particular nugget of local history?

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isaglanzer


Posts: 55
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #36
07-07-2010 09:48 AM

Gosh - having gone to bed last night thinking my question answered - Canonbie Rd is in Forest Hill - this morning it seems more uncertain again! If there aren't any parish boundaries or anything that resolve it, maybe the answer really is that there is no definitive answer, as someone suggested earlier, so that it's largely a matter of usage? Perhaps it might also be the case that the areas overlap - I noticed this morning that the church on One Tree Hill, which seems like the epicentre of Honor Oak, actually calls itself St Augustine's Forest Hill! What's that about? Perhaps in the interests of diversity it would be good to try and hang onto the Honor Oak name as it's less well known (even people in Clapham and Brixton don't seem to have heard of it but do know roughly where Forest Hill is) and might be in danger of fading out of use given the greater prominence of Forest Hill.

Situation reminds me a bit of an article I read about Stockwell, where we lived before we moved here a few weeks ago. Apparently its boundaries have been shifting progressively northwards over the last 150 years - for anyone who knows the area, it started off very close to the centre of Brixton, as an area centred round Stockwell Green, but the southern parts of former Stockwell are increasingly described as Brixton or Clapham, and Stockwell is moving further and further north into the Oval and Vauxhall areas. So maybe if its not a borough, postcode area, parish etc., the main question is what most people call an area?

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ForestHillier


Posts: 490
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #37
07-07-2010 10:02 AM

Stockwell

I used to live on Lansdowne Green Estate which strangley is near Lansdowne Way & Hartington Road, it is probally nearer Vauxhall, yet when people asked, I always said I lived in Stockwell

For those of you who dont know the area, Lansdowne Green is pretty near the Nine Elms market

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spud


Posts: 65
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #38
07-07-2010 10:53 AM

Does everyone agree that the area north of Wood Vale but west of Forest Hill Road (including Underhill Road) definitely isn't Honor Oak? Is there a consensus on that?

North of Wood Vale but east of Forest Hill Road seems to be a key disputed area because of the presence of Honor Oak Baptist church and Honor Oak Estate. Doesn't their existence suggest that somebody at some point must have thought that these places were in Honor Oak? (Caveat: road names can be misleading because they're just as likely to be named after destinations as neighbourhoods. But building names are a different matter.)

Mundania Road, Therapia Road etc: Honor Oak or East Dulwich?

If the area was farmland until the second half of the nineteenth century until buildings started to mushroom out around the newly built railway stations, then could some of the perceived boundary lines be where two originally distinct and separate neighbourhoods finally straddled over the last remaining field and met in the middle? Anyone got an informed opinion on that?

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NewForester


Posts: 377
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #39
07-07-2010 01:53 PM

If you go to A Church Near You, you will be able to see the Parish boundaries; the railway line is a definite boundary, which noone would claim for Forest Hill or Honor Oak.



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NewForester


Posts: 377
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #40
07-07-2010 01:58 PM

The four parishes above are (Left to Right):

St Augustine, Forest Hill
Holy Trinity, Sydenham
St Saviour, Brockley Hill
St George with Christ Church and St. Paul, Perry Hill

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