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Schools Admissions = Absurd Or What
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Ex FH Pat


Posts: 112
Joined: Oct 2009
Post: #1
22-04-2010 08:13 AM

COLIN Lewis lives directly opposite one of the most oversubscribed secondary schools in the country.

But the Royal Mail manager was still confident of a place for his son – given he can see the school gates from his front door.

So the dad-of-two was gobsmacked when he found out his application for 11-year-old Taylor to get into Haberdashers’ Aske’s Hatcham College had been unsuccessful.

To his amazement, he found out the school in Jerningham Road, New Cross, uses the distance from its sister site, five minutes’ walk away, to determine who gets a place.

Mr Lewis, who also has a 16-year-old son, said: “I live right opposite the lower school, literally a few seconds walk, but their catchment area is only based on the upper school.

“My son would have three years of education in the lower site, yet kids from much further away in Brockley will have got places instead.

“That means more parents in cars travelling to pick up their kids from Haberdashers’ and probably myself having to use a car because my child doesn’t get into the school closest to him.

“I find it ridiculous.

“The last person to get a place lives 18 metres closer to the upper site than I do.

"My son’s missed out by 18 metres – it’s hugely frustrating.”

Hatcham College, part of the Haberdashers’ Aske’s Federation, is one of the most oversubscribed secondary schools in the country with 12 applications for every place available.

In 2008, the federation took control of Monson Primary School in Hunsdon Road, New Cross, renaming it Hatcham Temple Grove and guaranteed every pupil a place at Hatcham College.

The primary school was largely destroyed on Tuesday last week after a huge fire swept through the building.

Sharon Oliver, registrar at Haberdashers’, said: “Haberdashers’ Aske’s Hatham College is compliant with the School Admissions Code of Practice.

“All applications are considered under the published admissions policy, which parents have had the opportunity to consult on since Hatcham College became an academy in 2005.”

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derbybill


Posts: 122
Joined: Jan 2010
Post: #2
26-04-2010 03:23 PM

This article appeared WORD FOR WORD in the South London Press recently and the story with photo is still available (dated 15 April 2010)on the SLP website.
So does that mean that it's just been copied, or is the username actually Michael Stringer whose email address appears at the end of the article on the SLP website.

So who is paying who to publish this article?

And why isn't the article credited to the SLP or the journalist who wrote it? Maybe there are fees involved?

I think we should be told!

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Ex FH Pat


Posts: 112
Joined: Oct 2009
Post: #3
28-04-2010 07:56 AM

What the hell ar eyou going on about, its obvious that it was copied and pasted, I was trying to bringto attention to the ggod people of FH about the absurd schools admissions policies, payment ??, why would anyone want payment

Dont think I will bother anymore after getting this reply

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Ex FH Pat


Posts: 112
Joined: Oct 2009
Post: #4
28-04-2010 07:57 AM

And Im not Michael Stringer

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roz


Posts: 1,793
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #5
28-04-2010 08:41 AM

I think this is just a misunderstanding, Ex Pat. I know nothing about schools but will need to learn soon, so thanks for posting it as its an interesting issue.

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Ex FH Pat


Posts: 112
Joined: Oct 2009
Post: #6
28-04-2010 08:46 AM

Thanks Roz

I know how awful it is when your child does not get into the local school and you then fail to win a place even after going to appeal, and having a letter from a doctor, an MP and even the education minister, then you see children sailing past your hom each day going to that said school and living no where near it, thankfully my son is better off where he is and is expected to pass all subjects with A grades, so maybe a blessing in the long run, yet still leaves a very sour taste in your mouth

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derbybill


Posts: 122
Joined: Jan 2010
Post: #7
28-04-2010 07:41 PM

The point I was trying to make was that any piece of journalism, as this obviously was, should be credited in some way. That's all.
Remember a journalist spent time researching this story, interviewing those involved and putting the story together. I guess that copyright rests with publisher, the South London Press.
I just think that its good practice to quote the source of the story rather than making it appear that you, Ex FH Pat, wrote the thing yourself.

I cant see any solution to the admissions situation at Askes if there are 12 pupils after every single place. Does the school really deserve its reputation of being so good?

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Ex FH Pat


Posts: 112
Joined: Oct 2009
Post: #8
29-04-2010 06:56 AM

Fair enough

I think there is a solution, you go to the nearest school from your home

Only reason that there may be 12 places for each child is because all parents want their kids to go to the best school, nothing wrong with that apart from when it takes away a place from a child that lives nearby

My son lives lesss that 5 mins walk from out local secondary school yet failed to get in as it is over-subscribed, now he has to travel on a bus/tube 3 miles to get to school, yet I see hundreds of kids getting of the tube/bus and walking right past my front door and going to the school that is 5 mins walk away from us, if this is not absurd, then Im a monkeys

Children clogging up the buses & tubes to get to school when they could walk if this admissions policy was changed back

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #9
29-04-2010 03:19 PM

My understanding of the comprehensive system in Lewisham, (assuming parents all select their local school) is that, children are allocated the nearest school, within their academic band (5).

So if by chance your local school is surrounded by a year group all of a certain band, then many are going to be allocated a different school once that band is fully allocated.
And children further away but of a different band, will get places in your local school.

I don't think it is absurd - it is trying to get a mix, but sure a small minority of parents and children will be very very inconvenienced.

Never mind. It will all be privatised in the next few years.

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Ex FH Pat


Posts: 112
Joined: Oct 2009
Post: #10
30-04-2010 07:16 AM

How can having hundreds of kids walk past your house each day and then see you child not get into school even though they live 5 mins away not be absurd

Not sure how Lewisham works, yet I thought they all worked the same like in Wandsworth where I now live

The schools had the admissions rights and Graveney which is in Tooting allows 30% to get in by passing an exam, then they go for siblings of children, then children in care and last it goes by distance, so unless you live nest door, you have no chance if you dont get the 98% pass in the exam, the child in then SLP live across the road from the school, so it is absurd

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Satchers


Posts: 262
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #11
01-05-2010 07:02 AM

Thread should really be called 'the myth of choice in school selection'

There is some, but the figures on how many people get their first or second choice schools at secondary level show that it's by no means all.

At primary level things are a bit clearer and mostly either sibling or distance based. But because there are a lot of (relatively small) schools quite close together (in forest hill) and differently regardeed by parents you do get some strange overlaps. It also seems to vary a lot year by year.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #12
01-05-2010 12:09 PM

Graveney is a foundation school (like kingsdale) and are not answerable to the local community - they select who they like and perhaps more importantly can expel the difficult and low achieving children.

Graveney is a watered down grammar school and the parents of the children there presumably are delighted with its results.

NLabour introduced these foundation schools and the tories will expand the idea further with free schools, so there is no getting away from it.

If double resources are aimed at the children from the ordinary maintained schools - ie have 10 children per class to cope with their extra needs, then I think selection by ability in theory might get better results for all, despite the extra travel. Big if though.

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Ex FH Pat


Posts: 112
Joined: Oct 2009
Post: #13
04-05-2010 07:13 AM

Well Perryman - when it happens to you or your child, then I think you will change your tune somewhat

It is absurd that you can live next door yet fail to get into that school even though you went to the primary school that is across the road[/align]

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #14
04-05-2010 09:25 AM

There are lots of people, and they all want to shout ME ME ME. Some are going to be disappointed.

What if the school next to you is run by religious loonies and you don't want to send your kid there?

What if it's NOT run by religious loonies, so you don't want to send your kid there? Or the wrong sort?

What if it's a notorious plughole, and you'd rather your kid got on a bus for miles than spent one day there?

What if your kid shows an aptitude for something the school across the borough is renowned for, but the one next door doesn't even have the facilities for?

What if there were any single other factor in play, other than the one that favours you?

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Ex FH Pat


Posts: 112
Joined: Oct 2009
Post: #15
04-05-2010 09:28 AM

What if it ever happned 2 u

U wait and see if it does and your childs face when all their schoolfriends have got into the school yet you have to travel miles and go to school where you will not know anyone

So has it happened to you - i doubt it you [Abuse removed - admin]

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Ex FH Pat


Posts: 112
Joined: Oct 2009
Post: #16
04-05-2010 09:40 AM

Oh I get it now

My child suffers while others gain - thats a fair deal

So which school did your child not get into ???

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #17
04-05-2010 10:24 AM

No need for the abuse, as I'm repeatedly told. I look forward to admin taking the appropriate action, though I won't hold my breath.

I've no idea where I've said that your child should suffer while others gain – probably just in your head.

I'm just suggesting that if you lived next to a school that wasn't so good, and your kid was forced to go there, you wouldn't be so happy about it, and might try and get them somewhere else, thereby breaking down the 'nearest first' system that you advocate.

There are other factors in play in school admissions, and while the system we have isn't perfect, no system is.

I don't have children, thank you very much, though I wasn't aware that invalidated my opinions about everything. Hopefully if and when I do, I'll still be able to see that issues are slightly more complex than 'the factor that favours me should be the only one taken into account'.

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Ex FH Pat


Posts: 112
Joined: Oct 2009
Post: #18
04-05-2010 10:30 AM

Apologies for the abuse - i was out of order with that

I can see your point -yet surely you must see mine when your child sees all their friends going into that school and they have to travel miles to a school where they dont know anyone

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #19
04-05-2010 10:36 AM

Of course I can see that point - can't be nice at all.

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Ex FH Pat


Posts: 112
Joined: Oct 2009
Post: #20
04-05-2010 10:52 AM

Funy thing now is that he is probally better off as the school he goes to only has 900 students, one of the smallest in the UK, yet it still received an outstanding ofsted report last year and he is expected to pass all his exmas with grade a & b and some evene higher, so in the long run it has worked out for the good plus made loads of new friends, he is now in year 10

What i was trying to let people if they did not know was that this does go on and to my mind is wrong, especially as he went to the primary school that was across the road

He did and will always leave a very sour taste in my mouth, once again, apologies for my remark, its just that this topic really does get my back up

Good luck in the future for any children you may have

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