[i]Children are lovely, but sometimes when you are sick at home, wish to have peace of mind and relax in your garden, any noise can be umbearable, so I can understand why people in the area have reacted to that business.Like a lot of people I would love to have this sort of peace and quiet but

I am currently ill at home with flu. I would love to have total peace and quiet but until I win the lottery and can afford a mansion in the country, I appreciate that this is not possible in London. Even then I am sure I would be disturbed by the sound of the local hunt traipsing by or the sound of my butler doing the hoovering, the Fortnum and Masons delivery van coming up the drive, or our private helicopter landing on our helipad. So nowhere is perfect.

There has still been no evidence put forward about this nursery being noisy. In any case I have young children myself so it impossible. Also in order to have such peace and quiet in ones garden. To achieve the above would require moving to a sheltered housing scheme where childrens presence is heavily regulated. If these people cited above had a large family living next door to them they would still not have that that total peace and quiet which they seem to think they have a right to. Yet the area in which they live is ripe for family living and many young families are moving in. I think what we have here is really a generational and lifestyle battle between those who think they have an absolute right to no noise whatsoever, and the rest of us.

Why picking up on trivial little words to make your point? The area has been always peaceful and a beauty spot. If people reacted to the case, something might have have happened. No one takes the risk t be made public enemy if they have not got a case. No solicitor, takes it up unless he/she cannot win it. Now we even know the name of the solicitor! Everybody is ending up on the SLP. Who is getting so much publicity in this crusade?
I thought there was no age discrimination anymore, now we talk about elderly widows, elderly people who do not like young ones! For God's sake, the area is where everybody, young or old wants to live in peace! Why was Piplings not set up in Forest Hill High Street where there are many empty business premises available? There is a little nursery in Forest Hill Road, not far from the Elm. No problems there. Why can't Piplings transfer the children from Liiphook Crescent to the new nursery at the Elm? What's the problem?
How can these people run two nurseries at the same time? Is their business going to expand more in the area and become a franchise?

This post was last modified: 02-02-2012 12:49 PM by orange.

I agree, Orange! This is a unique area of London. It's pin-drop quiet and seems quite out of the city, which is why opening a business like a nursery has caused such a furore (although notably planning permission was refused due to protests by local residents when the nursery on the much noisier Upland Rd in E Dulwich tried to expand). TLRA appear to me to work constructively and fairly to try to maintain the area's special character - why would they otherwise be objecting - because of a hysterical dislike of children?! And don't demonize the area's many very nice, gentle elderly residents!

And I speak as the parent of 3 very noisy kids!

'pin-drop quiet' might be a bit of an exaggeration. Even in Liphook Crescent the pleasant sound of children playing can be heard from the primary school, not to mention to noise of many cars dropping off/picking up primary school children twice a day. During the summer I have also heard loud music from the bandstand in the park drifting across the hill in the wind.

It is a nice quiet place to live, despite all the normal noises of a city, including aeroplanes overhead. But I don't think the nursery substantially changes this. I realise the immediate neighbours will be able to notice some noise from the nursery - although I am sure there are ways to mitigate this noise without closing down the nursery.

Why has nothing been done to sort this out amicably and neighbourly rather than closing down one of 50 businesses on the hill?

Anyone In Liphook Crescent is within Horniman-primary-school-playground- noise distance anyway. Not always so pin-drop quiet surely?!

We think alike Michael....

This post was last modified: 02-02-2012 01:36 PM by sweettalkingwoman.

You are unbelievable. The “little nursery on Forest Hill Road” is actually attached to residential premises. See : http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=96...CB8Q8gEwAA

Also parking in that busy area is actually much more of a problem than in Liphook Crescent.

And don’t you know that kids and busy roads don’t mix?

Also don’t you know there was a shooting there recently? A young man was killed. One of the bullets went through an estate agent’s window a few doors down from nursery and nearly killed someone in the shop. Do you think this is an ideal environment for a child?

You are being absolutely unbelievably selfish and I feel very sorry for Pipling to have to deal with neighbours like you. Shame on you.

You're right MonkeyMummy, Forest Hill Road is far too dangerous an environment for a child. Parents should cease taking their children to Peckham Park immediately, as well as to the doctor's surgery, and Piplings, East Dulwich.

I am not saying that. I bloody live there and love it. I am saying that commercial premises on busy roads are really not ideal for nurseries. I know - my child used to attend. It's got a tiny garden and it's really cramped. And I can only assume the noise goes through the party walls. Piplings' premises are much better suited to children.

Hey, I don't live in the area! watch your mouth and how you dare to call me selfish. The nursery in Forest Hill Road is not far from the Elm and was approved. Is that not the same road where the shooting happened? It is not my business if the nursery is opened or not, but I do feel that there is a lot of vitriol going on here and unnecessary. Perhaps you should see the other side of the medal for people living in the area.
I think this recent hate on the issue is damaging to both sides. Let's leave things in the hand of solicitors and the courts.

Agreed.

A Mediation Service is one of many potential options.

Zero risk involved as any party can withdraw at any stage.

And benefits include:
Savings in costs and stress.
Mediation is private and escapes unwelcome publicity.

Yes you are being absolutely selfish.

I am not saying that Forest Hill Road is dangerous. Just that cramming children in two up two down shopping premises and suggesting that's much better than Piplings' setting is ridiculous.

The Elms is a detached house on Forest Hill Road so much better suited for a nursery than Excel (ie: does not have a huge window shop window) opening directly on the street) Excel is also attached to residential premises potentially causing much more noise to neighbours than Piplings.

Can someone fill me in on what is unique about the Tewkesbury Lodge Estate?

There's lots of things that make it unique - lovely views, good sized house and gardens etc. But I'm guessing you mean something specific?

So I suppose it's not at all selfish to have children, go to work and not look after them yourself, then also expect nursery facilities within walking distance of home in a quiet part of Forest Hill. I can understand folk who want a decent home, children etc, have to work hard for it and make sacrificies, but there is a balance and it seems that certain voices on this board feel that their rights come before anyone elses and are sounding rather selfish themselves.

Thanks Ladywotlunches, I agree there are things that make it a great place to live but I've struggled all through this (and during some previous issues that have cropped up in the TLE) to understand why it is any different to quite a number of nice, residential areas in London. They all deserve to be protected...but that doesn't mean all change in them is bad.

IWAF - ah, I see. In that case I think the really unique thing about TLE is the views over much of it to central London or Kent (depending on which side of the hill you are). I believe, though may be mistaken, that TLERA was in fact formed to defend the area against the proposed development which is now the Wood Vale Estate. Originally those white tower blocks were meant to be much higher and would have significantly impacted these unique views, so in fighting for their reduction, TLERA did serve the community well.

However I think over the 51 year history, perhaps TLERA's remit has been lost, or misunderstood by those running the committee. As you say, everything can't stay the same ad infinitum, and change that reflects the community is definitely good.

gingernuts,

Having children is only selfish according to already selfish people. The act of looking after someone else can't by definition be selfish.

I got it now: I am selfish for working and not looking after children myself. Well, it may be news to you, but the realities of life have somewhat changed since your time.

What are your rights that are so infringed by a nursery next door? Seems to me your rights are paramount and all parents are selfish because one day another type of business may open next to YOUR quiet house.

Gingernuts - you are just unbelievable. I think the real reasons behind the vendetta against this business are becoming clearer and clearer.

Isn't there a better topic to talk about in Forest Hill than this? This issue seems having divided our pleasant community. There is a lot of "tergiversing" the issue around. I have the impression that everybody is using this issue to express their anger against society, their neighbours, elderly folks, children, people without children or with children, people with a four by four or without. Please, let's close the subject and get on with our life and leave the matter in the hand of the law. Piplings will win their case, if they acted according to law. but if everybody stir troubles, then the whole case is jeopardised. We should also hear nextdoor story. Perhaps there is more than everybody knows.
It is easy to stir people' acrimosity and venom. Who is gaining from all this anyway?

"So I suppose it's not at all selfish to have children, go to work and not look after them yourself, then also expect nursery facilities within walking distance of home in a quiet part of Forest Hill..." (emp added)

Well, well. (Rolls eyes)

I wondered how long it would be before this was All the Fault of Working Mothers (unless Gingernuts, you are going to come back waxing lyrical about stay-at-home fatherhood... in which case, I will humbly apologise for my assumption that you, like almost everyone else who makes comments like that, would like to see a return to those halcyon days when men were men, and the economy was different enough that it was not necessary for many families to have two breadwinners...)

I might not agree with you, but well done for sticking your head above the parapet and being honest enough to let us know what at least some of your issue with this facility actually is. Good luck with paying off the National Debt in a UK where all families contain only one tax-paying parent. Selfish? No more or less than anyone else.

As someone has already said, this aspect of the thing is a generational and/or lifestyle one.

I don't think it is helpful to have it mixed up with the other factors in the dispute, and those who do have will need to recognise this, put it to one side and focus on substantive issues if any mediation is to work, which I sincerely hope will be the case.

This post was last modified: 02-02-2012 04:20 PM by Contrary Mary.