What would stop a household from being a member of TLRA if they lived on the Estate and were up to date with their memberhsip payments?

gingernuts,
1. Not being informed when membership needed to be renewed (as I believe happens routinely for all members).
2. The street rep refusing to accept their payment.

Michael, I can understand the first point, and would reasonably expect household as well as rep to take responsibility for membership, but the second point is odd - would the street rep return the subscription money? - surely they wouldnt keep it and not forward it on?

That is what happened.

Sorry, this is s bit long due to the need for clarity on some points raised recently...

Voting
Should we just accept what the committee state without question? There are inconsistencies between the constitution and how the Committee are operating this SGM. The committee have stated there can be only 1 vote per household and also only from streets in the TLERA defined 13-streets area. Neither of these conditions have any backing from the constitution. If the Resident’s Association believe that 1 vote per household is acceptable, why isn’t it in the constitution? Where do the committee get their Rule about only allowing votes from within the 13 streets of the TLE from? This would go against the constitution that states very clearly that corporate members can vote.

Consultation
I spoke with most neighbours in the Council-defined 50m consultation area after I sent my Planning Application form into Lewisham Planning in Jan 2010. Therefore the Application correctly states I have not consulted neighbours. On anything subsequent to that Application form (e.g. my later Feb 2010 Design and Access statement) it correctly states I have consulted neighbours. Isn’t that quite straightforward really?
I have covered this before in the thread, so why you're posting it again now is beyond me. Unless it's mischievous…

Letters of objection
As I wrote above, I spoke to most neighbours in the 50m area, and in each of those meetings (including with our street reps living opposite us) each neighbour I spoke to confirmed directly to my face that they were ok with my plan or could not think of any reason why they would have a problem with it – yes, in every case!

After that, TLERA spearheaded an organised campaign of objections to my planning application, without a word to me, not one single question to me. Some kind neighbours informed me a team of people including the road reps were going around door-to-door giving vastly inflated children numbers (some as high as 44!) in order to scare people to put in objections. About 27 letters of objections were put in, and a few months later our road reps, sent in a nice packet of the repeat objection letters from the very same objectors mostly just quoting the same points again. TLERA themselves put in 2 distinct letters of objection, accompanied with their hired Chartered Surveyors report.

Just 8 objectors were from the area of consultation out of a total of about 16 – that’s 50% - clearly your suggested “all neighbours” is a bit of an exaggeration?

The other 19 objections came from outside the 50m-radius area of consultation, one from a Chartered Surveyor in Kent, and including some from neighbours who have kindly stated to me they now felt ashamed at having objected, having recognising that they had been stampeded into it against their own good common-sense. A number of those 19 are also from locations some distance away and therefore could never be affected by the Nursery in any way whatsoever – but all performing their TLERA duty to 'beef up' the objector numbers.

Our campaign
You claim it’s a campaign of hate – which I feel is completely disingenuous. This campaign has been about openness, fairness, and asking a very simple question:
If this nursery is such an awful problem, why has no-one actually reported it or complained to the council in 2 years? Why not one single complaint written or verbal to me? Why do many people on the hill and parents say it is almost impossible to tell there’s a nursery there during the day? Why is such terrible traffic congestion claimed, yet no-one can see it?

Paying for TLERA membership
In our case we have been members of TLERA for several years, but starting from early 2010 we were completely ignored and ostracized by our road reps despite having paid our subscription. We never received a single newsletter, or flyer for the whole year of our membership, while they worked actively against us.

When it became clear our road rep was spearheading the campaign of objections, we went to Valerie Ward, the TLERA chair at the time, and expressed our concern about the misinformation, and we asked to present our plans to the executive and to answer any questions they might have. Valerie's response: The Executive were not interested in hearing about our plans or speaking to us. We also didn't receive our envelope this year asking us to renew, so weren't reminded that our sub had lapsed. And when we were made aware of this fact and delivered our £5 to our road rep, he returned the envelope to us at our home on the estate, with a note saying we are not eligible for membership. Despite the chair agreeing that of course we were eligible, our road rep steadfastly continued to refuse to take our money! Other residents needed to intervene to take our sub down to the hon. secretary. So this has now been fully cleared up with the Chair, and we are once again fully paid up members.

This post was last modified: 05-03-2012 03:29 PM by pipling.

The only thing that the couple trying to run A NURSERY, have been guilty of, is exposing the appalling nature of some of the residents in the area and especially some of those representing TLERA committee.

The TLERA road reps who have overly involved themselves in this vindictive witch hunt - please quit and then Keep your mouths shut. I think that we have all heard enough.

We speak to our friends outside the area and they are horrified at the archaic carry on of some "on the hill."

I genuinely have no contact with Piplings, I am merely an observer, but I am disgusted by the lack of humanity and vituperative nature of the mob-organisers, nay-sayers and vile status cravers.

To borrow a phrase - the higher the monkey climbs the tree, the more it exposes its backside. It is about time that some of the committee pulled their blouses down , because we have seen enough.

If you have got caught up in objecting to this, it is not too late for salvation, just take a deep breath and repeat three times:

It is a NURSERY, not a chemical weapons factory.
It is a NURSERY, not a chemical weapons factory.
It is a NURSERY, not a chemical weapons factory.

Whatever the vote on Thursday, please may certain members of TLERA take heed and step down and let us all move forward enjoying the benefit of this community into the 21st century, not the 14th.

It's a constitutional power of the TLERA committee "to promote civic pride in the area of benefit".

The manner in which this case has been pursued has been counter-productive: aspects of their behaviour has been shameful, to the point that it brings the Estate into disrepute.

This is about pursuing a campaign to disrupt a resident's livelihood and a much needed service, based on a legal technicality, when no real nuisance has been established by the local authority.

Morning thunder, your post made me laugh. And how right you are. The more I hear about all of this the more it really is just a series of personal vendettas and petty actions. The fact that the Lees seem to have been cut off from active membership of the TLRA is just astounding but I am not really surprised at the clear self selection and excessive control exercised by the Committee as it seems to fit.

I am also an observer to this whole thing but have lots of experience of working with schools and nurseries who do seem to face higher than average number of unreasonable objections as opposed to other kinds of businesses. I have also worked with mental health establishments and care facilities who I have to say would probably get an easier ride than Piplings have done.

I also really dont think the continuation of this particular committee and road reps is tenable in the circumstances. Too much damage has been done and too much confidence lost. Time to regroup, reform and move on to better things and the 21st century.

Phew - that's a heated statement from someone who claims to be only an observer! I dont know what the truth of all this is - but I wouldnt take the rantings on a forum as gospel. Whatever disagreement may have occurred between road reps and individuals - it can only be a petty thing which sounds like it has now been resolved. Regardless, people are still entitled to object to a nursery of the size proposed without being accused of going to the devil. Rather than funny, I would say the unpleasant language used by 'morning thunder' aimed at those who dare to object to having a business of this size on their doorstep offensive.

Irony, thy name is gingernuts.

I would just like to make clear that although piplings says she spoke to most of her neighbours within 50 metres, she neglected to speak to either of her next-door neighbours, those people most affected by the nursery. The first official notice of her proposal was a planning application from lewisham council.

But pipling herself stated that she spoke to neighbours AFTER submitting the application, so indeed you would have received the notification first.

I believe that she also tried to contact both immediate neighbours several times, but they were not at home. More likely to find Emma at her own home during the planning application process being as she works and lives there. On receipt of the application, perhaps a stroll around to speak to your neighbour about any concerns you may have had would have been a nicer way of approaching this issue, rather than going straight through to TLERA and then solicitors? At least, that's what I would do if I received a planning application for my next-door neighbour.

This post was last modified: 05-03-2012 08:41 PM by ladywotlunches.

Sat-ire:
noun
1.
the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.
2.
a literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule.

Simply put, mocking those inflicted with pomposity.

If you find the language offensive, then I am glad to say that your pomposity has been mocked.

Try it with me Ginger Nuts:

Its only a NURSERY, not a chemical weapons factory.

"Whatever disagreement may have occurred between road reps and individuals - it can only be a petty thing which sounds like it has now been resolved."

But it has cost Pipling £70,000 in legal fees.

Hardly petty!

I know there is another thread for proper use of English, but does one not prick pomposity ?

As another observer, gingernuts, please help me to understand your motive for spending so much time and effort on this thread?

I have a threefold reason why this is bubbling up in my mind.

Firstly, you felt inspired to create this thread.

Then, I’ve observed you reporting on here that you have done an analysis of the mission statement of TLERA to support one of your assertions in post #144. (This isn’t a passing matter if I were reading mission statements.)

Lastly, in post #187 you wrote, “I have nothing to do with this action…”.

Straight down the line gingernuts, are you the covenant holder in this concern or a relation or a friend?

If not, then I’m rather flummoxed, and more than a little curious, as to why you are so passionate on this?

This thread started as a debate around a planning application in SE23, much like any. The thread became rather vindictive towards those who felt the location of the nursery inappropriate with comments like child haters etc which seemed at bit one sided and unfair. I feel sorry for Piplings, but also for the neighbours. It's a shame people have been so nasty on this public forum. You dont have to have an agenda to have a view. Much like you Cellar Door.

Thank you gingernuts.

Have you met either of the parties?

I’m not questioning agenda but the driving motivation. I take it that your feelings of sorrow is your motivation? Yes?

My motivation for asking you this is because, as an observer, I can see the parties pipling/piplingtoo and StraightTalk (“some of the neighbours”) who have both laid their cards on the table. I can’t quite read you nor your cards for why you are playing so hard and for so long.

As I said, it's just a view point. I was not the only person at the beginning of this thread that wouldnt like to have a nursery of 25 chidren next door to them. The sound of my own family can be enough to drive a person crazy, let alone having 25 of them in the next house! Sorry if that upsets people.

Gingernuts,

My children are much quieter when at nursery then at home.

Like many nurseries, you would not know that one exists behind a blue door.