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Jubilee Line
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Nicecupoftea


Posts: 7
Joined: Jul 2009
Post: #1
15-11-2009 08:40 PM

Apologies if this has been discussed previously, but I'm just curious about how the Jubilee Line will cope with additional passengers getting on at Canada Water once the East London Line extension is opened.

Right now JL trains are completely rammed full during rush hour at London Bridge, to the extent that at the peak you can wait for the next train to get near the front of the queue (aka surging mob). If the DLR stops working then basically forget it ... go west a few stations then switch back.

Since no-one gets off at Bermondsey, at Canada Water you basically have no additional capacity. How will it cope with an extra few thousand people disgorged from the East London?

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FHSoc


Posts: 134
Joined: Nov 2009
Post: #2
17-11-2009 01:03 PM

If you have tried using the Jubilee line at the weekend, you will be aware that they are modernising the line at the moment.

The upgrade should be completed by the end of this year and will mean that London Underground (LU) will eventually be able to run a train every two minutes at peak times, providing a third more capacity for Tube passengers and a major boost to the Capital's economy.

Hopefully that will be enough!

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Nicecupoftea


Posts: 7
Joined: Jul 2009
Post: #3
18-11-2009 09:56 PM

Right, but even at current capacity trains regularly stop in tunnels because of 'congestion' or 'awaiting a green signal'.

Between London Bridge and Canary Wharf at peak in the morning, the current system is over capacity, even if everything's working. If the DLR's down, or any problem on JL, then it's severe.

I can see Canada Water being regularly closed due to overcrowding.

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #4
18-11-2009 10:22 PM

I believe they're putting in a super-duper new signalling system to cope with the new longer trains and smaller gaps between them.

http://www.tubelines.com/news/releases/2...60322.aspx

We'll see. Let's hope for the best Smile

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junegapi


Posts: 106
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #5
19-11-2009 06:34 PM

I wonder if this is why from Forest Hill there'll be 6 tph in the morning rush hour and only 4 in the evening? This assumes that people will change to the Jubilee Line at LB in the morning and to ELLX at Canada Water on the way home?

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Nicecupoftea


Posts: 7
Joined: Jul 2009
Post: #6
21-11-2009 10:24 AM

I'm not really reassured when in the link above, in its own press release, tubelines says:

"The technology, Alcatel?s SelTrac? S40, was chosen because it is tried and tested on urban railways around the world, including in Vancouver, Kuala Lumpur, Hong Kong and in London on the Docklands Light Railway, although none present such a challenging environment as the London Underground."

The DLR?! A trundling scaled-up model railway that operates at walking speed but still suffers signal failures? Incidentally, has anyone else noticed a downturn in reliability of the DLR in the last year or two? I stopped using it from Bank to Canary Wharf.

I'm not impressed either with trains every 2 minutes. Moscow Metro does trains every 90 seconds at peak using 1930s technology, and is close to 100% reliable. I lived in Moscow for several years and never remember a single delay. I don't even know the Russian for 'signal failure' (Russian speakers on this forum ... is there any equivalent? Smile )

Returning to London, it always struck me as if the entire system was running on Mogadon. So now we're chucking money at Bechtel to install a whizzy new system that we hope will deliver a fast but not stunningly fast service. Fine ... but how reliable is it?

Because when anything goes wrong at morning peak rush hour, it's going to be ugly.

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Nicecupoftea


Posts: 7
Joined: Jul 2009
Post: #7
21-11-2009 10:49 AM

Oh, and while I'm having a rant, please let me point out to TFL/LU:

YOU DO NOT EVER RUN A 'GOOD' SERVICE.


- First, a 'good' service is one that runs reliably all day, week, month, not one that is temporarily not dysfunctional.

- Second, the whole system is sooooooo sllloooooooowwwww that even at best, 'normal' is the only justifiable description.

- Third, after I have fought through hordes of zombie financiers to enter a carriage and stood wedged with my nose in someone's armpit while stuck in tunnel approaching Bermondsey as the driver announces trains are 'backed up' all the way to Stratford, it is a bit frustrating to eventually exit at Canary Wharf and hear an announcement that this qualifies as a 'good' service.

- Fourth, even at the best of times it sounds incredibly smug, and winds up passengers, ahem, sorry, 'customers'.

Phew, rant over. I enjoyed that.

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Satchers


Posts: 262
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #8
22-11-2009 11:24 PM

Having lived near to Canada water for about 6 years and been a frequent user of the Jubilee Line I would say that the problems it has with capacity are similar but much less severe than you get at other stations closer into Central London. The Northern Line for example is pretty impossible to get onto at peak times anywhere between Archway and Camden Town.

The really odd thing about CW station is how big it is and how few people there seem to be in it mostly as it was built for the kind of capacity it will start to see from next year and not really for the last decade. When I lived round there a lot of people were concerned by the amount of new development that was being proposed for this area and Canary Wharf and whether it could cope and as a consequence a lot of S106 money has gone into paying for the upgrade.

Yes, the trains need the extra signalling work to cope but waiting for a train or so to pass before getting on to the jubilee line is not actually much of a delay, even though it might feel like it. At the moment I regularly have to wait for a number of Charring X trains to fill up and go before I can get on at LB.

I've said this before but it is a great station and (mostly) a pleasure to use. There are even lifts between platforms.

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steveb


Posts: 113
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #9
23-11-2009 11:55 AM

Quote:
I'm just curious about how the Jubilee Line will cope with additional passengers getting on at Canada Water once the East London Line extension is opened


I think the answer is that displacing passengers from LB to Canada Water dosen't necessarily cause a capacity problem:
In the morning, commuters from Forest Hill traveling towards Canary wharf change at CW instead of LB, so capacity at CW is the same. Those travelling from Forest Hill to LB and further west are additional between CW and LB, but the line is not full on that section in the morning (it fills up at london Bridge). The opposite applies in the evening.

Have to say its a couple of years since I used this route regularly so things may have changed.

Quote:
[Canada Water]is a great station and (mostly) a pleasure to use.

Agree, but one frustration is that the escalator between the ELL and the Jubillee gets so crowded at the peak that you can't walk down on the left (only place I've regularly experienced this outside the tourist areas), so there will be quite a wait to get between platforms. It dosen't take long, but you know how patient we all are in the morning!

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,351
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #10
25-11-2009 02:06 PM

Personally, I think no-one should walk up or down the escalators.

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AMFM


Posts: 306
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #11
25-11-2009 06:23 PM

Seriously? Why not?

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junegapi


Posts: 106
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #12
25-11-2009 07:38 PM

'elf and safety?

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,351
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #13
26-11-2009 09:25 AM

I think you can double the capacity of the escalator if people stand on both sides. Often only a few people walk up or down.

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Nicecupoftea


Posts: 7
Joined: Jul 2009
Post: #14
03-12-2009 09:50 AM

Quote:
I think the answer is that displacing passengers from LB to Canada Water dosen't necessarily cause a capacity problem:
In the morning, commuters from Forest Hill traveling towards Canary wharf change at CW instead of LB, so capacity at CW is the same.


Ok, good point, but assumes no extra passenger volumes generated by ELL.

Also, Canada Water will still be crunch point if anything goes wrong. Say the DLR is suspended at peak rush hour. All trains from LB to Canary Wharf will be full to bursting.

Only as many people will be able to get on at Canada Water as get off. Each ELL train will bring hundreds more people. I predict a riot? [/quote]

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