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Why Why Why do people not move down in trains?
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mljay


Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 2007
Post: #1
06-12-2007 10:16 AM

Almost every morning, getting on the train at HOP, I say the usual "Would you please move down, please, thank you".

I would much rather stand in the corridor area, where at least there would be some air space, than be squished in the area by the doors!

I'm curious. Can anyone shed light on the phenomenon of not making use of all available space.

What do you think?

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Applespider


Posts: 283
Joined: Feb 2006
Post: #2
06-12-2007 10:39 AM

Can think of a few reasons... I'll leave you to comment on their validity...

Depending on the seat layout, you can end up with nothing to hold onto - so everyone tries to stand by the doors where there are poles.

If you end up standing in the middle of the carriage, it can take forever to get off when you arrive at the terminus which means you end up queuing to get through the barriers. If you're in a hurry, standing near the doors means you get off again quicker.

Some people might be getting off at an intermediate station so want to stay near the doors rather than fighting their way through.

People are idiots.

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Simon


Posts: 12
Joined: Jul 2005
Post: #3
06-12-2007 11:06 AM

Even worse are the people who stand in the way of the doors when everyone is trying to get off at HOP in the evening.

...and those that insist on having loud 'phone conversations no matter how packed the train is.

...and those the lean on the poles so you have nothing to hold on to.

OK, I feel much better now.....

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Elizabeth25


Posts: 212
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #4
06-12-2007 11:13 AM

I know that sometimes there isn't room to move down. It is also difficult because our trains were not designed to have so many standing people on them, so some parts of the train have areas where you have nothing to hold on to. I myself dread the enivitable push down to the middle where you only have gravity to hold you in your place. It is a no win situation, unfortuately.

I do think there should some train ediquette. The people who have to stand should get off the train first, then those who had a seat get off after. I hate it when some large man with a window seat gets up before London Bridge to elbow his way to the door.

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davidl


Posts: 180
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #5
06-12-2007 11:53 AM

Do you know, I think this might be a topic that people can broadly agree upon... but I've been wrong before.

To the list above I'd add some more examples:-
- the person who sits in the aisle seat and leave the window seat empty and harumph when someone wants to sit down, making great play of moving their legs a tiny bit rather than just moving to the inside or standing up to get out of the way
- people with bikes who leave them strewn across the doorway (though Southern really ought to do more to make the trains bike and standing-person friendly)
- the ubiquitous badly-insulated-headphone/too-loud-mp3 listener
- the person who comes and stands directly in front of you and the yellow line when you've been stood patiently waiting for a train for 10 mins or more
- those unfortunates who get off the train, stop directly in front of the doors looking around and pondering where they are going to go to next. I know they might be disoriented, but really, take a few steps and let everyone else off, please.

Oh, that feels much better...

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mljay


Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 2007
Post: #6
06-12-2007 12:08 PM

Wow.... its good to vent....

I totally agree on the "If you have a seat, you should wait for standing people to get off first" etiquette.

The comment about not having anything to hold on to also applies to being squeezed in by the doors unable to reach the poles... but because of the squash, you can't fall over! So if everyone moved and squashed a bit more in the aisles as well, then no falling over there either!

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millesens


Posts: 65
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #7
06-12-2007 12:21 PM

And whilst we are at it, why people sit or stand in a packed train and not a single window to be seen open in the carriage. On a rainy day like this one there is more condensation on a ?commuter? train to and from London than in a Turkish bath. People cough, sneeze, they have eaten some extra strength garlic/onion curry the night before, the vapours of the alcohol still lingering in a small cloud in front of their mouth and everybody is quite happy to breathe this smelly, unhygienic, hot and sticky air ? ?Open the windows and move down the corridor so we can all fit in more comfortably and can breathe almost properly ! "Because this is not your private train and we all need to share the space!? That is my chant. At the moment I?d rather walk on my hands to the City than take the train.

And no, that doesn't feel much better because ranting makes me unhappy.

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seeformiles


Posts: 269
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #8
06-12-2007 12:24 PM

But sometimes there is absolutely no room to move anywhere, let alone down the carriage. Especially on a Monday after overrunning engineering works have messed up the morning services. It's a bloomin' nightmare and very glad I don't have to make the journey every day at the moment.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #9
06-12-2007 12:29 PM

People who insist on opening the windows when they get on the train, without having the shread of human decency required to ask if this would bother anyone.

I'm looking at YOU, woman with the green coat who gets on the fifth carriage at HOP!

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AMFM


Posts: 306
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #10
06-12-2007 03:35 PM

Do you look for things to make you angry baboonery or do they just find you?

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #11
06-12-2007 03:43 PM

AMFM Wrote:
Do you look for things to make you angry baboonery or do they just find you?


Not many things make me angry, to be honest. I just express it when they do.

Lack of consideration for other people being chief among them.

And thinking the world owes you a living because you're a) religious b) a parent or c) a religious parent.

And poor spelling and grammar, so apologies for my typo in the previous post.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #12
06-12-2007 04:05 PM

Oh and fireworks. And Evertonians. And dogs. But those generally fall under lack of consideration too. And the Daily Mail. And gastropubs. And Innocent Smoothies.

OK, you win.

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Elizabeth25


Posts: 212
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #13
06-12-2007 04:21 PM

soooo, basically anything outside of a two foot radius of your immidiate surroudings.... Dogs? really? Also I would have thought you had a subscription to the Daily Mail.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #14
06-12-2007 04:26 PM

Elizabeth25 Wrote:
soooo, basically anything outside of a two foot radius of your immidiate surroudings.... Dogs? really? Also I would have thought you had a subscription to the Daily Mail.


Well you're the one who gets all sentimental for the fa-mi-ly...

Dogs, yes. They are noisy, they smell, they defecate, they bite you in public parks, shortly after their owner, upon seeing them bound up to you, has gone 'you're alright, he won't hurt you'.

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AMFM


Posts: 306
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #15
06-12-2007 05:33 PM

I'm with you on dogs - evil, the lot of them - apart from my parents' dog, he's lovely.

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Ooperlooper


Posts: 104
Joined: Jun 2006
Post: #16
06-12-2007 11:50 PM

There's no legal limit to the number of passengers you can carry on a train carriage (see http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.8192).

So Southern will maximise profits by using as few carriages as possible (a train arrived at Forest Hill today with ONE packed carriage!) unless customers have a more attactive alternative means of getting where they want to go....which we don't.

As it says on that site:

Quote:
Where an operator of a London commuter train service exceeds levels of train crowding specified in the franchise contract, the DfT can require the operator to produce an action plan for providing more capacity and alleviating overcrowding.


Perhaps lobbying the DfT might be something the Forest Hill Society would consider?

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PVP


Posts: 271
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #17
07-12-2007 09:42 AM

Anyone here work at WH Smiths? We should get the stats on newspaper sales, the Guardian v's the Mail.

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hilltopgeneral


Posts: 156
Joined: Mar 2004
Post: #18
07-12-2007 10:21 AM

Demographic information describing (inter alia) reading habits is fairly readily available for the area - ACORN, MOSAIC and what have you, much loved by the marketeers.

The most accessible source is Upmystreet.com, which characterises the prestigious UDB thus:

"Often, many of the people who live in this sort of postcode will be young, living in converted flats, in multi-ethnic areas. These are known as type 18 in the ACORN classification and 1.14% of the UK?s population live in this type.

Neighbourhoods fitting this profile are almost exclusively a London phenomenon, with high concentrations in most inner and outer London boroughs. Here is an overview of the likely preferences and features of your neighbourhood:

Family income High
Interest in current affairs Very high
Housing - with mortgage Low
Educated - to degree Very high
Couples with children Low
Have satellite TV Low

These young multi-ethnic communities are primarily found in London, with many living in houses which have been converted into flats.

Most people are in their twenties and thirties and there are only a few, very young children. The population is diverse. On the whole they are well qualified. Many are in professional and managerial jobs, with good incomes. Others have lower level qualifications and are likely to be office and clerical staff. There are also a significant number of students.

The majority of people are renting their homes privately. However, there is also a high proportion living in Housing Association property.

Public transport is by far the most popular method of travelling to work or study. Residents are also happy to walk, and only a minority see the need for a car. At this stage in their lives this type are not really thinking about investing their money. They will spend their spare money on travel, and will take long haul trips as well as European holidays.

They like exercise and sport, as well as more contemplative pursuits such as the theatre, the arts and self-improvement classes. They are also very interested in current affairs and read The Guardian and Independent as they commute to work".

So now you know.

I'm sure the picture is quite different though for all of you wearing string vests with mattresses in your front gardens over in West Catford.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,348
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #19
07-12-2007 06:45 PM

The BBC said today that I will not be able to buy string vests in future as supermarkets will not be stocking them in future.

How will I keep warm in West Catford in future?

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millesens


Posts: 65
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #20
10-12-2007 04:34 PM

Hilltopgeneral if you had spent an extra 5 minutes on your favourite "upmystreet" and did some homework before posting you could have saved yourself the embarrassment. I typed in my illustrious post code (on the old side of the tracks) and guess what came up ?


Often, many of the people who live in this sort of postcode will be young, living in converted flats, in multi-ethnic areas. These are known as type 18 in the ACORN classification and 1.14% of the UK?s population live in this type.

Neighbourhoods fitting this profile are almost exclusively a London phenomenon, with high concentrations in most inner and outer London boroughs. Here is an overview of the likely preferences and features of your neighbourhood:

Family income High
Interest in current affairs Very high
Housing - with mortgage Low
Educated - to degree Very high
Couples with children Low
Have satellite TV Low

These young multi-ethnic communities are primarily found in London, with many living in houses which have been converted into flats.

Most people are in their twenties and thirties and there are only a few, very young children. The population is diverse. On the whole they are well qualified. Many are in professional and managerial jobs, with good incomes. Others have lower level qualifications and are likely to be office and clerical staff. There are also a significant number of students.

The majority of people are renting their homes privately. However, there is also a high proportion living in Housing Association property.

Public transport is by far the most popular method of travelling to work or study. Residents are also happy to walk, and only a minority see the need for a car. At this stage in their lives this type are not really thinking about investing their money. They will spend their spare money on travel, and will take long haul trips as well as European holidays.

They like exercise and sport, as well as more contemplative pursuits such as the theatre, the arts and self-improvement classes. They are also very interested in current affairs and read The Guardian and Independent as they commute to work.

So now you know HTG

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