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Children in Pubs
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hilltopgeneral


Posts: 156
Joined: Mar 2004
Post: #121
04-01-2008 03:29 PM

Agreed, but I don't suppose it's just come out of the blue. Conjecture on my part of course, but they have possibly had some problems with 'boozing parents' and found themselves compelled to bring in some guidelines.

It's a bit sad, but some people are hard to educate and 'legislation' may be the only way. I can see that it is easier to have a company-wide policy like this than leave it to some hapless barman or manager to have to decide to refuse further service to a customer, who might be aggressive.

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #122
04-01-2008 03:49 PM

hilltopgeneral wrote:
Agreed, but I don't suppose it's just come out of the blue. Conjecture on my part of course, but they have possibly had some problems with 'boozing parents' and found themselves compelled to bring in some guidelines.

It's a bit sad, but some people are hard to educate and 'legislation' may be the only way. I can see that it is easier to have a company-wide policy like this than leave it to some hapless barman or manager to have to decide to refuse further service to a customer, who might be aggressive.



Stating the obvious a little, don't you think?

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admin
Administrator

Posts: 424
Joined: Dec 2002
Post: #123
04-01-2008 04:56 PM

Regarding some recent posts, maybe it's best if everyone accepts that opinions are just opinions and not prompts for an argument. I'm not sure anyone gains from dismissing alternative opinions - personally I'd rather hear as many (constructive) viewpoints as possible.

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Tasha


Posts: 1
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #124
05-01-2008 05:06 PM

I don't agree with children in pubs or pub gardens. Firstly because I don't want other peoples kid running around me while their parents glance over as if to say 'aren't they cute?'. No they are not. You only think so because you are their parent. If I wanted children around me I would have my own to annoy me. Secondly, what about the kids? Children should not be around loud, swearing, smoking, drunk people (especially if those people are their parents) and drunk people should not have to worry about smoking, being loud, drunk and sweary in what is ultimately an adult environment.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,412
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #125
05-01-2008 06:14 PM

My grandparents ran pubs and I was never allowed in the bar during opening hours.
My suspicion is that publicans are happy to take parents with children's money while the pub is relatively empty. But would prefer to utilise the space with higher spending customers. Their policy may just be an excuse to get people with children to leave.
Personally, I think pubs are for adults (or for teenagers pretending to be adults).

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ana


Posts: 27
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #126
06-01-2008 06:01 AM

On the button Sherwood. Pubs are for adults and totally unsuitable for children, as a licensee selling a licensed drug I see the best of people and unfortunately the worst of people and I have seen and heard enough to know that a pub is just not the right environment. As a child I have never been to a pub with my parents and I don't think they were short of ideas to spend family time together. These days there are plenty more alternatives anyway. I think kids should stay out of pubs, both if you don't like them but especially if you like them and want to keep them from being exposed to adult childishness and drivvle that us poor licensees have to put up with!!
I think Wetherspoons are entirely right to curb the drinks policy for parents, the licenced trade is constantly under scrutiny for corrupting our young people and more self regulation is required in the industry to keep this Nanny State from meddling with our right to party (responsibly).

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #127
07-01-2008 02:00 PM

There are a whole bunch of different arguments and points of view here. One theme that is current across a couple of them is behaviour.

As a parent of two I dont necessarily want to spend a lot of time with them in a pub but do want to enjoy some semblance of a social life and take advantage of pub gardens in better weather. My worrying about my son annoying others gets to near-heart-attack levels in any public place let alone pubs so I try not to inflict that on myself too often. I think we all agree that there is a parenting issue with making sure kids are well behaved in public places.

So that's one side of it; but there also seems to be an issue with the behaviour of adults too. Pubs and licenced premises aren't generally there to provide environments where you can drink yourself somewhere near to oblivion but are supposed to be pleasant social environments. It seems odd to me that this is put across by a few people as a reason for keeping kids out of pubs without a hint that 'loud, drunken, sweary' behaviour is anything like the real problem. Surely excluding kids just means you don't feel so guilty about acting like a plum? I imagine most parents wouldn't take their Torquils and Pollyannas to a pub after about 6pm and I'd hope most of the side-affects of higher alcohol consumption happen later than this.

I might sound a bit wholier-than-thou in that bit, sorry - my own drunken debauchery only ended a couple of years ago with the birth of my own kids.

There is also a problem with the blurring of boundaries between different types of social establishment now. Restaurants try to be bars, pubs try to be restaurants and so on. I hope people really don't expect kids to wait until puberty to expeience a meal out so if you have kids in restaurants and pubs pretending to be restaurants then the nature of the pub has changed and you are going to have more kids in pubs than when we were all kids.

But rest assured, you are extremely unlikely to find me clogging up your pub with my kids, and if you do you are more likely to be annoyed by the neurotic father reacting to every little thing than by my kids tugging on your G-Stars (or Levis for us older types).

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #128
09-01-2008 09:12 AM

ana wrote:
On the button Sherwood. Pubs are for adults and totally unsuitable for children, as a licensee selling a licensed drug I see the best of people and unfortunately the worst of people and I have seen and heard enough to know that a pub is just not the right environment. As a child I have never been to a pub with my parents and I don't think they were short of ideas to spend family time together. These days there are plenty more alternatives anyway. I think kids should stay out of pubs, both if you don't like them but especially if you like them and want to keep them from being exposed to adult childishness and drivvle that us poor licensees have to put up with!!
I think Wetherspoons are entirely right to curb the drinks policy for parents, the licenced trade is constantly under scrutiny for corrupting our young people and more self regulation is required in the industry to keep this Nanny State from meddling with our right to party (responsibly).


I would then suggest that with that logic children be banned from shops and supermarkets that sell alcohol!Unsure

I am sorry that you have to put up with drivvle from some of your punters, as someone who worked in a bar for a good while I would have liked to have wacked quite a few of the less pleasant people.

My concern is if you are worried about exposing children to some of your less friendly customers why dont you bar those unfriendly customers? Surely it would make your life easier.

Let's face it, with a glass of orange/apple juice as costly as it is in a pub and with the amount that kids spill you will make a fortune!!Laugh

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #129
09-01-2008 09:19 AM

IWereAbsolutelyFuming wrote:
There are a whole bunch of different arguments and points of view here. One theme that is current across a couple of them is behaviour.

As a parent of two I dont necessarily want to spend a lot of time with them in a pub but do want to enjoy some semblance of a social life and take advantage of pub gardens in better weather. My worrying about my son annoying others gets to near-heart-attack levels in any public place let alone pubs so I try not to inflict that on myself too often. I think we all agree that there is a parenting issue with making sure kids are well behaved in public places.

So that's one side of it; but there also seems to be an issue with the behaviour of adults too. Pubs and licenced premises aren't generally there to provide environments where you can drink yourself somewhere near to oblivion but are supposed to be pleasant social environments. It seems odd to me that this is put across by a few people as a reason for keeping kids out of pubs without a hint that 'loud, drunken, sweary' behaviour is anything like the real problem. Surely excluding kids just means you don't feel so guilty about acting like a plum? I imagine most parents wouldn't take their Torquils and Pollyannas to a pub after about 6pm and I'd hope most of the side-affects of higher alcohol consumption happen later than this.

I might sound a bit wholier-than-thou in that bit, sorry - my own drunken debauchery only ended a couple of years ago with the birth of my own kids.

There is also a problem with the blurring of boundaries between different types of social establishment now. Restaurants try to be bars, pubs try to be restaurants and so on. I hope people really don't expect kids to wait until puberty to expeience a meal out so if you have kids in restaurants and pubs pretending to be restaurants then the nature of the pub has changed and you are going to have more kids in pubs than when we were all kids.

But rest assured, you are extremely unlikely to find me clogging up your pub with my kids, and if you do you are more likely to be annoyed by the neurotic father reacting to every little thing than by my kids tugging on your G-Stars (or Levis for us older types).



Best post on this topic so far!!

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baggydave


Posts: 390
Joined: May 2004
Post: #130
09-01-2008 10:59 PM

Wotherspoons to only allow families with kids a couple of rounds each. Discuss. Their point is that if you are with kids then you shouldn't be spending the day in the pub with them.

Or is it more profitable to kick the families out as adults spend more (the returns on soft drinks are far higher than beer so not sure about that).

BD - to the point

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Perryman


Posts: 820
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #131
10-01-2008 12:04 AM

Definitely limit the sale of ammunition to families in wetherspoon pubs.
Is it too much to ask that all weapons be checked in at the door?

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #132
10-01-2008 08:28 AM

Perryman wrote:
Definitely limit the sale of ammunition to families in wetherspoon pubs.
Is it too much to ask that all weapons be checked in at the door?


I was going to mention something along those lines but I would have been less tacktfull.

Not sure I would want any of my children anywhere near a Weatherspoons. (unless they take to wearing track suits with hoodies and the obligitory baseball cap)Laugh

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baggydave


Posts: 390
Joined: May 2004
Post: #133
10-01-2008 09:47 PM

I've only eaten once in a Wetherspoons, and that was in Harrow - a place incredibly devoid of decent eateries. It was bland, but OK, sort of

Pray tell me of your experiences of the Capitol, which you must be alluding to

BD - always willing to find out more

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thenutfield


Posts: 235
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #134
10-01-2008 11:04 PM

baggydave wrote:

Pray tell me of your experiences of the Capitol, which you must be alluding to


It's a bit like going for a drink at an airport, only the screens have sky sports instead of departure times. I quite like it, you know what you are getting - and you cant argue with those prices - and there is an anonimity about it that appeals. It seems like a lot of yoof go there to have a few cheap drinks before moving on somewhere a bit more classy. I've never seen any trouble there.
And we shoudnt be to harsh about the 'hoodies' etc - they are fellow SE23 residents (could even be my son).
PS - steer clear of the 'beef' burgers.....more likely to be zebu.

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Toffeejim


Posts: 84
Joined: Nov 2004
Post: #135
10-01-2008 11:42 PM

Londondrz wrote:
Not sure I would want any of my children anywhere near a Weatherspoons.

I'd have thought it was a pretty good pub to bring chidren to: it's cheap to cater for them, there are a lot of other families that eat in there, and it's refreshingly devoid of precious middle-class dingoes who stridently insist their human rights are being undermined if they can't eat their Sunday lunch in an environment composed exclusively of others in their socio-economic group. Those are the types I'd be worried about exposing children to.

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Simod_the_bod


Posts: 10
Joined: Nov 2006
Post: #136
29-05-2009 10:36 AM

I have never agreed with children frequenting pubs and growing up remember only being allowed (on very rare occassions) in ones that had 'Child friendly rooms'.
Of course, with most pubs now being of open plan design and more food orientated, this is not possible now in most cases.

I am even now used to spending my 'Chilled' saturday afternoons having kids running around and screaming uncontrollably. I understand that the times are a changing but...

Where does this inclusion stop?

For example, I was trying to have a peaceful drink with my girlfriend last sunday evening in the Dartmouth Arms, which was subsequently destroyed by a crying baby...... at 10.15 PM!

Is this morally fair to the rest of the patrons?
Don't even get me started on whether it was fair on the poor baby...

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #137
29-05-2009 11:41 AM

Simon you are quite. Cannot believe a mother would take a baby into a pub at that time especially an upmarket pub.

In general have no problem if children stay seated ( as signs normally ask parents to make sure they are ). However most modern parents think OK to dump their child care on the community .
Pub owners / landlords should be more strict on this behaviour. They probably do not want to upset the parents but by doing nothing they upset many more adults.

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seeformiles


Posts: 269
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #138
29-05-2009 12:24 PM

I agree, 10.15 is too late. Don't pubs usually have a cut off time of 9pm?
I think it's fair to expect some time to drink in adult only company later in the evening.

Besides which I always feel very restricted around children in that I have to watch what I say and only talk about 'nice' things within their earshot. It's a bit inhibiting. Maybe others think that's a good thing..but we all need to release a bit of tension and discuss the issue of the day with our adult friends, whatever that issue might happen to be - and we should be allowed to do that at 10.15pm.

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seeformiles


Posts: 269
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #139
29-05-2009 12:27 PM

Admittedly a baby's not going to understand what's being said, I'm obviously talking about older children here!

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #140
30-05-2009 09:56 AM

This is an interesting one. Its not usually what you'd expect and I would probably also want a child free environment when I go out, (otherwise whats the point!) however from personal experience I could imagine various reasons why an otherwise responsible parent would be in a pub even a reputable gastro pub at 10.15 at night. Babies are a bit of a moveable feast compared to toddlers- as long as they are safe and comfortable they can usually sleep (and unfortunately scream) anywhere.

I did do this myself when on holiday two years ago in Dorset when our child was 3 months old. We were staying in a B+B and could not get in anywhere to eat in Swanage and despite having booked at one had actually been refused access to two 'family' restaurants on the basis that our pram would take up too much room and cause a health a safety issue. Our last resort was a pub who said it was no problem as we had explained our situation. By that time it was 10am, two hours after having set out on a search for dinner. Heaven knows what people thought of us sitting having a pint at that time of night with a small baby on our laps, but we couldn't care less really- the child was in no danger and slept straight through. Next time its self catering for us.

A few weeks before we had a lengthy power cut one Saturday night so did ourselves venture also into the Dartmouth at 9.00pm for refuge as there was otherwise no heat and light and no way of warming bottles. The alternative was to sit in the chippy which we felt was a less desirable option. We did call and check before hand and they were altogether very helpful in what was a difficult situation for us. No one batted an eyelid. We have also taken our child when a baby into beer gardens on warm evenings and stayed there until 10pm ourselves whilst the child slept peacefully.

In this case the mother may just have been desperate to get out of the house and needed some company. It can be very isolating being a parent especially in the early days. From the babys' point of view, with irregular sleep patterns, being in the Dartmouth in the evening is probably no more traumatic being there whilst the mother has an afternoon coffee. In respect of the impact on other users, it really is a question of a balance of rights of young persons v adults ; NCT meets and baby events often take place in pubs these days, ie Honor Oak, so parents are also good customers and their needs also warrant consideration from a commercial point of view. Go to most mediterranean countries and you'll see kids of all ages out eating with their parents late into the evening.

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