You've hit the nail on the head there. This may be the most sensible thing written yet on this thread.

Even the best behaved children have a limited attention span and are forced out of sheer boredom to make their own entertainment (by running around etc) if you detain them in a pub for more than an hour or so.

Much as you might wish to, you simply can't keep living the same life as a parent as you did before, spending the afternoon in the pub with your partner and / or friends as if the children aren't with you and needing either to be kept entertained or allowed to play.

It's not fair on the children and not fair on other customers to spend so long in the pub that the children get bored stiff and have to get up and find some fun.

No-one reasonable minds the presence of children per se, but this indignant insistence that those of us (some of whom are parents ourselves) who have a problem with the sort of poor parenting in evidence from time to time around the area are somehow deviant really grates.

This type of behaviour invariably seems to be from the middle class / 'professional' set with improbably-named offspring who no doubt frown all the more severely in their turn on the parenting of others, smugly considering themselves superior because they feed their own organic veg and cloth them more expensively or whatever.

"One of the great things about pub culture in this country (contrast, for example, the US) is that local pubs can be, and often are, great, welcoming, sociable places which enhance the community"

I was in NY a few months ago and went on a real ale pub crawl with my pal who's a Yank.
I didn't see one child in any of the bars we visited. Could it be that Manhattan parents are better than London parents because they don't drag their kids to the pub every five minutes?

America is a very different drinking culture to Great Britian. In NY, especially, bar are mainly for drinking and tend to be adult-only environments.

Pubs in Great Britian and London (especially for Sunday lunch--where this thread originated) are more community centred. There really isn't a pub-type culture in America. There are bars and there are family-style 'resturants'. Comparing bars in NY with pubs in London really is apples and oranges.

Pubs in the UK are struggling. In order to survive they have to cater to a wide range of clientel.

This thread didn't start with "I went into my local at 10:00 pm for a quick pint and was met with a rioting creche" It started with a talk about Sunday lunch (the most FAMILY of meal occasions--I might say) being distubed by the presence of children.

How about this for a deal - they don't drink in the ball pool and your kids don't play in the pub? I always have good ideas.

Seriously though, if anyone is actually trying to defend the right of kids to run around in the pub (I trust not), then that's not a great deal more absurd than me insisting I should be able to meet friends and drink cans of lager in the playground / ballpool / wherever.

I'm sorry I can't conform to your ideal of a FA-MI-LY (I find it tugs the heartstrings better when it's three syllables) Sunday Lunch. But I want to eat it too. Where should I go?

It's sooooo tempting......

Baboonery: Try the Dulwich Wood House. I understand it's anti kids and there's a separate restaurant area.

SE23 husbands (etc) Why not buy the other 'alf some cookery lessons for xmas ?
Then you can have your wonderful family meal at home with the kids and not have
some nasty beer drinker getting angry, maybe even learn to cook your self ?

wow! just read this thread from start to finish. I feel like I've been beaten up!
Admin, cant you install some sort of 'spluttering rage' meter to limit the levels of baboonery's ire?! I worry about him expiring at his keyboard.

the perfect example of why internet forums are not the best way to try and get a point across. people quote selectively, ignore other bits of what you are trying to say, and just sound off.

I have three children, we often go in pubs (used to prefer the gardens, now they are too smoky!). I dont think I'll try any of the local ones for a while - Baboonery might be there!
(only joking Babs, I sympathise with some of what you say)

Whats' the problem; if you want adult's only jus't try the 'Bird in Hand' or a nightclub. S'easy.

And if you want 'child friendly only' try a Giraffe.

What if they fall off?

To be honest, all this simply makes me want to organise a family pubcrawl around FH just to enjoy a yah boo moment. Fed up with being nice.:
If you haven't got a child to hand, borrow one.

Watch this space...

Children's pub crawl, excellent . I'm of two minds. Either show the crankies that most children and their parents are not hell bent on ruining their Sunday pint and yorkshire pud. OR fill them up on sugar Fruit Shoots, empty the Advent chocolates, make them stay up past bedtime and run havoc through the drinking dens of Forest Hill!!!

(I can see social services comming now...however we would only have to show them this thread and we would probably be let off)

I see the subject is causing a bit of hoo-hah as usual.
But just to add that I'm a reasonable adult who is too long in the tooth to go clubbing - so people like me need somewhere to go too.

As much as everyone seems to dislike The Capitol on these forums, at least they have a family area which seems to work ok because the pub is big enough to accommodate everyone and if you just want a quiet (and cheap) drink you can tuck yourself away round a corner and hide.

Normally I agree with everything Baggy Dave has to say about pubs. However, he has now had the temerity to suggest that the Dulwich Wood House should allow kids into a small area of the pub. When visiting a proper traditional pub, you must leave your kids sitting on the steps outside while you nip inside for a few pints. They should be given a small glass of lemonade or a stick of liquorice to share to keep them quiet. It didn't do Bill Wyman any harm, sitting outside the Lord Palmerston in Maple Road while his dad went for a pint.

I am stunned to think that any parent would think of, let alone organize a pub crawl, dragging young children and possiblely babies as well, through the streets visting pubs !!!

Oh yes. And at closing time my three year old likes to jump on a night bus to Shorditch to go clubbing. He's still in nappies, so it saves him having to que for the WCs.

I think we should try and broker a ceasefire. *breaks out the blue beret* Secondary conflicts are breaking out on other threads!!

Point was that they should be a bit flexible not let kids overwhelm the place

BD, raising the debate to new heights

Let me see if I've understood this correctly...

Some of us want 'adult pubs' where adults are free to do adult things...like talking incomprehensively, falling over and hurting themselves, spilling food and drink, shouting and squabbling, suddenly getting into emotional tirades then forgetting all about it a few minutes later, weeing themselves, vomiting, etc.

And children should not be allowed into these places because they don't know how to behave.

Hmm.