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Children in Pubs
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Les


Posts: 95
Joined: Jan 2004
Post: #1
03-12-2007 07:57 PM

[Split from 'Best Sunday Roast' -admin]
--------

davidl Wrote:
Been to The Dolphin a few times - food's great, and the beer's not bad (was Timothy Taylor the last time I was there IIRC and it's a hell of a lot more reliable than the HO) but it seems to be a victim of its own success. And of the children running riot...

I wonder what can realistically be done, about the standard of behaviour of kids in pubs. The mentality from parents in some cases appears to be to treat the whole pub as a play area, where little or no supervision is needed. I guess its up to the bar staff to intervene - but its a fine balance.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #2
04-12-2007 11:37 AM

Les Wrote:
I wonder what can realistically be done, about the standard of behaviour of kids in pubs. The mentality from parents in some cases appears to be to treat the whole pub as a play area, where little or no supervision is needed. I guess its up to the bar staff to intervene - but its a fine balance.


Nothing can be done. They are more important than you, because THEY'VE GOT KIDS.

Apparently.

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grahamw


Posts: 58
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #3
04-12-2007 02:03 PM

Ananas you can come round our house for sunday lunch... the missus does a wicked roast and there's no kids!!!
In fact, you can ALL come!!Wow

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #4
04-12-2007 02:37 PM

Baboonery Wrote:

Les Wrote:
I wonder what can realistically be done, about the standard of behaviour of kids in pubs. The mentality from parents in some cases appears to be to treat the whole pub as a play area, where little or no supervision is needed. I guess its up to the bar staff to intervene - but its a fine balance.


Nothing can be done. They are more important than you, because THEY'VE GOT KIDS.

Apparently.



I am dreadfully sorry, those of us with children will now stay home and leave you all to it. Rolleyes

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Elizabeth25


Posts: 212
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #5
04-12-2007 03:01 PM

I have given up on this debate, which eventually comes up in any thread that talks about pubs. There are some people that just hate kids. No matter what the behaviour. You know what. I drank and ate in pubs when I was childless and I eat and drink in pubs now that I have a child. I have, on occasion frequented (in no particular order, or frequency) The Capital, the Dartmouth Arms, the Honor Oak, the Perry Hill, the Bird in Hand, Question, Prince of Wales and the Railway Tavern. I have on occasion seen children in these establishments, I have even (GOD FORBID!) heard them. But I have never had any child distrupt my own enjoyment of any establishment. I have a feeling that this is not because I have never visted a pub with unrurley children, but because I do not hate children.

Grow up. The same people the lamanet the demise of the local pub tend to be the same people who cry "ohhhh, but there were kids in there! boo hoo hoo". Pubs will close if they don't make money. And loney old men drinking cheap lager sitting in a pool of their own urine does not signal a successful pub.

Rant over. take your shots!

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AMFM


Posts: 306
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #6
04-12-2007 03:07 PM

Londonrz - you're missing the point that people are trying to make. The presence of kids is not the issue, it's the presence of kids treating pubs like and restaurants like a playground and their parents allowing them to do so.

I think we all accept and understand that kids may get bored at the table and want to wander around but that doesn't mean the parents get to ignore them when they do so.

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #7
04-12-2007 03:12 PM

AMFM Wrote:
Londonrz - you're missing the point that people are trying to make. The presence of kids is not the issue, it's the presence of kids treating pubs like and restaurants like a playground and their parents allowing them to do so.

I think we all accept and understand that kids may get bored at the table and want to wander around but that doesn't mean the parents get to ignore them when they do so.


OK, fair enough and good point. My "little angel" is usually well behave but at 3 can sometimes become a little unhinged and run around like a mad thing until corraled and placeted with juice or crisps, it is at this stage where, although she has been quite for an hour, we get "that look" from some other patrons.

I must admit to wanting to put some parents on the naughty step when it comes to letting their kids run riot.

I must admit to also wanting to sit with a bottle of wine and let the beasts free to roam to give me 15 min of "me" time, upsetting to others in the pub but Oh God what a great 15 min for meLaugh

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Toffeejim


Posts: 84
Joined: Nov 2004
Post: #8
04-12-2007 03:29 PM

Baboonery Wrote:

Les Wrote:
I wonder what can realistically be done, about the standard of behaviour of kids in pubs. The mentality from parents in some cases appears to be to treat the whole pub as a play area, where little or no supervision is needed. I guess its up to the bar staff to intervene - but its a fine balance.


Nothing can be done. They are more important than you, because THEY'VE GOT KIDS.

Apparently.

For all child-haters present there are plenty of pubs where you'll very rarely see a child inside the main bar. You are making the mistake of going to pubs that are happy to attract families. With the presence of children comes disorder: live with it. But if you can't then go somewhere else.

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Andy


Posts: 57
Joined: Feb 2005
Post: #9
04-12-2007 05:07 PM

I have sympathy with both camps here. Elizabeth, my children are now old enough to take themselves to the pub. When they were young however, if they were in a pub or a restaurant then it was implicit that they behaved in a civilised manner. These are adult environments and should be treated as such. I don't think that many people object to the presence of children but they do object to a pub being treated as a kind of creche/playgroup. When you have young children it is easy to turn a blind eye to behaviour that is likely to upset people that just want a quiet drink, soaked in their own urine of course, but I think all that people are asking for is a bit of consideration.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #10
04-12-2007 05:28 PM

Elizabeth25 Wrote:
I have given up on this debate, which eventually comes up in any thread that talks about pubs. There are some people that just hate kids. No matter what the behaviour. You know what. I drank and ate in pubs when I was childless and I eat and drink in pubs now that I have a child. I have, on occasion frequented (in no particular order, or frequency) The Capital, the Dartmouth Arms, the Honor Oak, the Perry Hill, the Bird in Hand, Question, Prince of Wales and the Railway Tavern. I have on occasion seen children in these establishments, I have even (GOD FORBID!) heard them. But I have never had any child distrupt my own enjoyment of any establishment. I have a feeling that this is not because I have never visted a pub with unrurley children, but because I do not hate children.

Grow up. The same people the lamanet the demise of the local pub tend to be the same people who cry "ohhhh, but there were kids in there! boo hoo hoo". Pubs will close if they don't make money. And loney old men drinking cheap lager sitting in a pool of their own urine does not signal a successful pub.

Rant over. take your shots!


So one can only dislike unruly children if one hates children? Otherwise unruliness is fine? Your attempts to rationalise your own selfish behaviour are logically inept.

If you've never had a child disrupt your enjoyment of a pub then I suggest you haven't been in a pub for 10 years. Your 'soaked in your own urine' comment about anyone who dares to commit the dreadful crime of not having children is pathetic.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #11
04-12-2007 05:29 PM

Londondrz Wrote:

Baboonery Wrote:

Les Wrote:
I wonder what can realistically be done, about the standard of behaviour of kids in pubs. The mentality from parents in some cases appears to be to treat the whole pub as a play area, where little or no supervision is needed. I guess its up to the bar staff to intervene - but its a fine balance.


Nothing can be done. They are more important than you, because THEY'VE GOT KIDS.

Apparently.



I am dreadfully sorry, those of us with children will now stay home and leave you all to it. Rolleyes


Good.

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #12
04-12-2007 05:32 PM

Baboonery Wrote:

Londondrz Wrote:

Baboonery Wrote:

Les Wrote:
I wonder what can realistically be done, about the standard of behaviour of kids in pubs. The mentality from parents in some cases appears to be to treat the whole pub as a play area, where little or no supervision is needed. I guess its up to the bar staff to intervene - but its a fine balance.


Nothing can be done. They are more important than you, because THEY'VE GOT KIDS.

Apparently.



I am dreadfully sorry, those of us with children will now stay home and leave you all to it. Rolleyes


Good.


OK, that's cleared that up then.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #13
04-12-2007 05:32 PM

Londondrz Wrote:

AMFM Wrote:
Londonrz - you're missing the point that people are trying to make. The presence of kids is not the issue, it's the presence of kids treating pubs like and restaurants like a playground and their parents allowing them to do so.

I think we all accept and understand that kids may get bored at the table and want to wander around but that doesn't mean the parents get to ignore them when they do so.


OK, fair enough and good point. My "little angel" is usually well behave but at 3 can sometimes become a little unhinged and run around like a mad thing until corraled and placeted with juice or crisps, it is at this stage where, although she has been quite for an hour, we get "that look" from some other patrons.


How horribly selfish of them. They'd also be ridiculous to complain if their chair fell apart after an hour ("you've had 59 minutes on that chair, what more do you want?"), if part of their lunch was infected with salmonella ("god almighty, it was only the cheese! The rest was fine!")

If you can't control your child for the whole time you are in a pub, don't go.

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #14
04-12-2007 05:35 PM

Baboonery Wrote:

Londondrz Wrote:

AMFM Wrote:
Londonrz - you're missing the point that people are trying to make. The presence of kids is not the issue, it's the presence of kids treating pubs like and restaurants like a playground and their parents allowing them to do so.

I think we all accept and understand that kids may get bored at the table and want to wander around but that doesn't mean the parents get to ignore them when they do so.


OK, fair enough and good point. My "little angel" is usually well behave but at 3 can sometimes become a little unhinged and run around like a mad thing until corraled and placeted with juice or crisps, it is at this stage where, although she has been quite for an hour, we get "that look" from some other patrons.


How horribly selfish of them. They'd also be ridiculous to complain if their chair fell apart after an hour ("you've had 59 minutes on that chair, what more do you want?"), if part of their lunch was infected with salmonella ("god almighty, it was only the cheese! The rest was fine!")

If you can't control your child for the whole time you are in a pub, don't go.


Er, in jest. Try to keep upRolleyes

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Elizabeth25


Posts: 212
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #15
04-12-2007 05:57 PM

Baboonery Wrote:

Elizabeth25 Wrote:
I have given up on this debate, which eventually comes up in any thread that talks about pubs. There are some people that just hate kids. No matter what the behaviour. You know what. I drank and ate in pubs when I was childless and I eat and drink in pubs now that I have a child. I have, on occasion frequented (in no particular order, or frequency) The Capital, the Dartmouth Arms, the Honor Oak, the Perry Hill, the Bird in Hand, Question, Prince of Wales and the Railway Tavern. I have on occasion seen children in these establishments, I have even (GOD FORBID!) heard them. But I have never had any child distrupt my own enjoyment of any establishment. I have a feeling that this is not because I have never visted a pub with unrurley children, but because I do not hate children.

Grow up. The same people the lamanet the demise of the local pub tend to be the same people who cry "ohhhh, but there were kids in there! boo hoo hoo". Pubs will close if they don't make money. And loney old men drinking cheap lager sitting in a pool of their own urine does not signal a successful pub.

Rant over. take your shots!


So one can only dislike unruly children if one hates children? Otherwise unruliness is fine? Your attempts to rationalise your own selfish behaviour are logically inept.

If you've never had a child disrupt your enjoyment of a pub then I suggest you haven't been in a pub for 10 years. Your 'soaked in your own urine' comment about anyone who dares to commit the dreadful crime of not having children is pathetic.


Ummm, huh? Trust me I have never quizzed incontinent old men on whether they have children or not. You knowledge of 'my own selfish behaviour" is interesting. Are you spying on me? Did you catch me stealing a extra chocolate out of the advent calendar? What in the world are you on about?

And I have been in many pubs in the past ten years. I have seen children behaving well and I have seen children behaving not so well. What I have not seen is mobs of rioting children destroying the afternoons of childless drinkers.

Whenever a pub thread appears enevitably someone starts with "this pub would be ok if IT WEREN'T FOR THE CHILDREN! ARRRRR!."

Please, really? The 'old men' comment was meant to be a funny way or describing the old-schol type, patterned rug, old men at the bar type drinking establishments (and I have seen some men who have been sitting in their own urine--You are the one who made the connection of childless people and bladder control. Which frankly, I have a higher opinion of the childless)

Those types of pubs are dying out for good reason. And I would rather sit next to a family, who may have a toddler who is louder than need be, then sit in a dank, bleak, dark, urine smelling hell hole. Glare

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Ian


Posts: 75
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #16
04-12-2007 06:03 PM

When I was young I stood out side the pub with a bottle of coke with a straw and a bag of plain crips with the little blue bag of salt inside, because in those day's children were not aloud in pubs.
So when I want to go and have a quite drink, why should I have to put up with someone else's feral offspring running around ? It's time to ban these snotty nosed little devils from pubs forever.

All these problems started when we stopped sending them up chimneys !

And loney old men drinking cheap lager are not sitting in a pool of their own urine. It was left there by the dirty little child who sat there before.


One loud voice can make a difference !
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Elizabeth25


Posts: 212
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #17
04-12-2007 06:14 PM

How did the child wee on the seat, if he was out on the curb with a bag of crisps? You've got to give them credit for good aim. ;-)

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Les


Posts: 95
Joined: Jan 2004
Post: #18
04-12-2007 07:41 PM

I hold my hand up to kicking this one off. I have a young daughter, but have been driven out of the Herne Tavern because it is sometimes/often a nightmare on Sundays with hoards of kids ransacking the place, trashing the furniture, looting the bar, and holding the adults to ransom with broken coke bottles. OK I exaggerate, but it is unbearable at times even with my little angel/screamer/mugger in tow.

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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #19
04-12-2007 08:49 PM

As ever the clue is in the title - this thread was about Sunday roast which would tend to attract family types. If there was no food, I don't think you would get the children in the pub.

Children do need to learn - and be told by their parents - how to behave in public. Where better to break them in gently than in a pub? Our first experience of taking children to restaurants was at the Orchard (before it went Thai), when my elder son was just three. Mercifully, he ate nothing but bread - the tablecloths were very white and crisp - no one else got a look in at the rolls, though. Now aged 8, with a brother of 5, I am moderately confident (you can't predict all eventualities) that they can behave in a civilised manner in a public place and demonstrate at least rudimentary table manners.

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baggydave


Posts: 384
Joined: May 2004
Post: #20
04-12-2007 09:30 PM

I've got kids (my word, selfish you BD?), I like old mens pubs (as the whole of SE23 knows). Those that don't let kids in are fine, as I can have a proper adult drink there. Those that do, also fine, as my kids will be reasonably well behaved, and usually they will be in a minority.

If I want them to run around and go crazy, we can go to somewhere bland like the Grove (aka Harvester) or a myriad of similar places out in Kent, with ball parks and play areas. Acutually I hate these place so much I'd rather go to the park with a few cans of special brew. (Actually I am fibbing about the special brew (do I need to explain), but nice to have the odd picnic, particularly in the Horniman Gardens)

And there is the Dulwich Woodhouse for the summer. Which turning the whole argument around is very two faced in that they make most of their money out of families yet can't let one diddy part of their bar allow kids, for example on a nice winters day when we have been for a walk in the woods. So we sit outside in the cold.

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