NF, superb. Hope over the fence and we can walk up together and have a chuckle at the law breakers.

If they only hump the road east of Honor Oak Road that only means the addition of Manor Mount, Waldenshaw, and Davids Road. I understand that Fairlie Gardens and Pearcefield Road escape the pleasure of a humping. All the other roads connecting Honor Oak Road to Devonshire Road are already humped.

Personally I think this is the best outcome for the roads. Waldenshaw needs speed calming, Liphook Crescent and Tewkesbury do not need speed calming. And the bonus is that when the council realised that 10% of car travel the wrong way on Manor Mount, this road has gone to the top of the list for mobile or other enforcement. Of course reading this forum you would have already reached this conclusion, but the council need to spend ?50k to establish the facts when we already know them.

Over in Perry Vale a review of the traffic calming is starting from today:
http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/...e20mph.pdf

If you live in Perry Vale North and would like to suggest moving/adding/removing any speed humps, this is the consultation for you.

I do love that picture of Church Rise..... on the front of the consultation.
WITHOUT all the humps and little islands. Looked much prettier, and cars drove down it in a straight line

ROFL

Seriously thougfh, it does appear that the 20 MPH zone has failed miserably on those roads which have speed cushions (Church Rise 32.2MPH, Westbourne Drive 28.8MPH and Cranston Rd 27.9MPH). How much has speed decreased on these roads (if at all) and what is the accident reduction on these roads?

I suspect that these were the problem roads before the speed zone was introduced, and the measures are obviously not self enforcing.

This especially is good news for people living on the east side of HOR, as we have been campaigning for years for a 20mph zone. Humps as we all know have their issues but the do seem to come as a package with the 20mph zone so we will have to live with them.
Fortunately the recent attempts of the Forest Hill Society to deny even a speed problem existing on these roads, despite most residents experience being otherwise, has not prevented this problem being taken seriously by the Council.
We know its not a panacea for everything and the questions of enforcement remain an issue and this is something that local residents will be monitoring and discussion over coming months in conjunction with the Council.

NF is that seriously the average for Church Rise?
I swear the speed has increased these days.

Roz,
I'm still not sure how the 20mph zone will reduce traffic speeds on Ewelme, Dunoon, Benson, Tyson, Devonshire, or Woodcombe.

I am pleased that it will reduce speeds on Waldenshaw, even if this means humps.

The major problem on Manor Mount is the cars going the wrong way - something that you and I having been working to address for a couple of years, and it does now look like something might be done as a result of the council observing the direction and speeds of cars.

Overall I think the best solution has been achieved, with new traffic calming where needed without unnecessary humps on every road. I also think the changes to the traffic lights at the junction of London Road and Honor Oak Road should reduce the numbers of people attempting to avoid the jam though rat-runs and one-way roads.

As a resident on Waldenshaw Road I welcome speed reduction. However I am concerned that the introduction of speed humps will have an adverse effect on the older houses on the road. I have posted before (and indeed I outlined my concernes on the proposal) that speed humps cause vibration and the vibration then cause cracks in houses.

Having had the road dug up outside our house a few years ago the road wide trench was not filled in correctly and as a result any larger lorry going over the small dip in the road caused vibrations and in a very short time we had a lot of cracks appearing both inside and outside the house. When I contracted the council they were less than interested until I threatened to sue for damages, it was repaired the next day.

My point is, if a small dip in the road causes cracks, then the same must be true of a much larger speed cushion/hump. Given Waldenshaw Road is the access road to all of the Sainsburys/Warburton/Hovis etc. lorries I am a little concerned.

I wonder if the powers that be had thought of that?

We have? 16 years here and I'd never heard of it before! And thank goodness for that ... I'm very disappointed that the posh estate has been able to use their clout to avoid this, whereas the wrong side of the tracks (or rather main road) has to lump it. Or should that be hump it.

Please, parents out there - teach your kids that roads are for cars, not for playing football in. Even if your local road is quiet, they could grow up treating all roads like that.

Not sure where you are based, shzl400 but the residents of Ewelme and Woodcombe (Forest Hill bypass) have been in contact with the Council for years re speeding traffic and congestion, ever since Peter Dawson was the local councillor and the Forest Hill Steering Group was in full flow. Speed and traffic are not always mutually exclusive by the way. A 20mph zone was one of the requests due to the reduced impact on traffic casualties were a child to be hit at that speed as opposed to 30mph.
We were put forward for funding on several occasions but never managed to get it due to the actual lack of fatalities. This is one of the major pedestrian routes to both Horniman and Fairlawn schools and hence is an increasing concern for local people.
There were several incidents including walls being demolished at the junction by speeding cars, cars being damaged, and lorries shedding their loads after speeding and then having to brake suddenly. Frequently lorries would just drive off leaving their rubble etc blocking the road. To witness some of these large vehicles hurtling down the hill in excess of 30mph is actually quite scary. To get a 20mph zone is not the end, but the beginning of concerted action to improve the safety and enjoyment of residents on these particular roads so yes, requiring enforcement will be next on the agenda.

I haven't looked to see how HOR itself is affected by these proposals but this is another nightmare for children walking to and coming from school due to traffic numbers, narrow footpaths, speeding and just sheer bad tempered early morning driving. I know some people just won't walk on the eastern side of the road for that reason but prefer to walk on the slightly raised part on the other side.

Traffic speeds on Ewelme Road are relatively reasonable according the the figures from the council, with the 85th percentile below 21mph in both directions. It does have more traffic than most residential roads, although less than Tyson Road or Devonshire Road which both have slightly higher traffic speeds as well as more cars (but without the semi-blind corner at the top of Ewleme).

The roads with the highest speeds were Waldenshaw Road, Manor Mount (travelling the wrong way), Ringmore Rise and Dunoon Road (which has quite large humps). The figures from the council do suggest that there is not a problem of speeding in Ewleme and most other road, except for the occasional nutter which no calming measures will prevent.

Honor Oak Road has no additional calming measures proposed and was always to be excluded from the 20mph zone. The plans do nothing to further reduce traffic speeds on this road. The 20mph zone will not add any further enforcement (beyond the existing humps) to Ewelme/Tyson/Dunoon/Benson/Devonshire, so I see no reason why the 20mph zone will have any effect on traffic speeds on roads other than Waldenshaw, Manor Mount and David's Road.

I'm pleased that the council will address the issues on the roads with the highest traffic speeds and it is good that the council is now turning their attention to roads with more serious speeding problems, such as Church Rise, Westbourne Park, and Cranston Road where their previous imposition of a 20mph zone has done little to reduce speeds, and has made some roads more dangerous, with cars swerving to avoid humps.

Its just amazing that people who don't have day to day experience of our road over a number of years try and tell us what its like in the most sanctimonious and self righteous of ways, and as always, interesting that these people of course know what's been going on much better than those who have lived here for well over a decade. But then some people constantly like to tell others what to think and no alternative point of view can ever count or be as good as theirs.

Oops! They missed the real problem road in this area that really could do with being limited to 20mph.
What a surprise.

Roz said: "....interesting that these people of course know what's been going on much better than those who have lived here for well over a decade. But then some people constantly like to tell others what to think and no alternative point of view can ever count or be as good as theirs."



You do us a great service in provoking debate on everything from pools, schools, parking, hospitals, Louise House, the works. Like most, sometimes I agree with you and sometimes I don't - that's freedom of expression, and it's always fantastic to see someone interested in local affairs who is happy to pull no punches, whatever the issue.

But considering the way you go about it (including the one post where you presumed to speak for me and others like me, not to mention the many where you have been happy to accept council figures as "chapter and verse"), the only possible reaction to your above comment is:

"Pot... kettle... black!"



lol.

The actual averages according to page 8 of the Council's review document which Michael referred to were 31.1 MPH (North) and 33.3 MPH (South). Note these are average speeds and not the 85th percentile quoted elsewhere for the Forest Hill zone.

Ros - at the Dunoon end of the hill - which, I was interested to see in Michael's post, has one of the higher speeds in the area. It already has, as Michael also says, fearsome humps, which scrape the underside if you go 15 mph, never mind 20! I don't see how imposing an arbirtrary limit, even with humps, is going to help, given the stats for Dunoon, despite having had humps for some years. 20 mph is not the answer.

I also know that some of the wall knocking down in the past is due to cars losing control on the very steep parts of the roads on the posh side (the side escaping any humping!) - not necessarily due to speed.

Oh, and Perryman, thank goodness that someone at the council has some sense and has excluded Honor Oak Road. Some major roads do have to be free flowing. It is unfortunate that there is a primary school right on the main road and I don't have a solution. I do agree that pavements should be wider for pedestrians and I definitely think that much of the road should be double yellows. I've been forced off the pavement by a car parked two wheels on the kerb and no room for a buggy between the car and the wall. There can also be a real problem at the traffic light end, where two P4s have to squeeze past each other.

I think you rather undermine your case shzl400!
A child was knocked over ~6 months ago on Honor Oak Rd, I saw a cyclist knocked off her bike a couple of weeks ago, I was clipped while walking on the pavement recently, 2 lampposts have been destroyed in the last year and I'm sure that is not half the story.

It is a dangerous road to take at speed as it is narrow, hilly, bumpy and bendy. The speed alignment cushions do nothing.

It was never designed as a through road - that is Wood Vale's role and always has been (sorry Wood Valers but it is true).
In fact the misuse of this road is also at the core of the manor mt rat run/one way issues and the dangerous congested junctions at either end.

The case for this road to be made 20mph is overwhelming, and as for someone at the council having some sense, well, you are just being silly now.

Has everyone received their flyer from the Council- 20mph zone and traffic calming to only be installed on the east side of Honor Oak Road.
Works to commence at the end of November and complete in January, weather and contractors programme permitting.
As the two sides of Honor Oak Road gave differing levels of support, it looks as if the results of the consultation exercise were actually considered. And the contentious idea of having humps in Fairlie Gardens has been sorted too! Am quite amazed... No doubt these measures will not please everyone but the majority has ruled.

This sounds barmy! Why on earth whould only one side of Honor Oak Road be dealt with? I live in HOR and would love all the speed bumps removed and replaced with sensible traffic slowing measures. What they should be, I have no idea. But I'm sure there are young people with degrees in traffic control who will be 'consulted' and asked to submit plans. As far as local consultation is concerned, I have neither seen nor heard of anything. But I live on the other side of the road. Anything that stops large fully laden 8-wheelers and skips bouncing off the humps has to be better than what we have at the moment

Sorry if that statement was ambiguous, it's the areas East and West of HOR that are getting differing treatment, not the actual road itself. The Western area remains as before, the East side gets the traffic calming.