SE23.com - The Official Forum for Forest Hill & Honor Oak, London SE23
Online since 2002  -  10,000+ members

Home | SE23 Topics | Shops & Services | Wider Topics | Offered/Wanted/Lost/Found | Advertising | Contact
Geddes Hairdressing & Barbering Studio One Armstrong & Co Solicitors Adult Learning Lewisham


Post Reply  Post Topic 
Pages (2): « First [1] 2 Next > Last »
Death Penalty
Author Message
brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #1
01-07-2009 03:54 PM

I am afraid we live in more dangerous times. But what can we do about it nothing so keep smiling.
I would support any party ( bar BNP ) who would bring back death penalty. Before I am as usual chastised I think you would find more people support than you would think , perhaps not people you would talk to usually.
Fed up with paying hundreds of pounds a week to keep these killers in prison for so called life who walk out in 5 out so years and repeat the crime.
I know most people on se23.com tend to be of a liberal bent and think they are of course the majority.
For instance can anyone say the two thugs who killed and tortured the French Students in New Cross should not have their lives ended.?

Find all posts by this user Reply
Greengoddess


Posts: 27
Joined: Aug 2006
Post: #2
01-07-2009 03:59 PM

The Death Penalty for the murder of the Police, Armed forcesand the like, should be re-instated but a general Death Penalty 'NO'. I want the perpetrators of these crimes to spend every day of the rest of their lives in Solitary Confinement, death is too soft on them.

Find all posts by this user Reply
katie one


Posts: 17
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #3
01-07-2009 04:04 PM

I have never understood this way of thinking. Why is a police officer's life worth more than anyone else's. If the death penalty was in force why should, say, a paramedic killed whilst treating someone be less of a loss than a police officer?

Find all posts by this user Reply
brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #4
01-07-2009 04:23 PM

Green goddess
I agree but life now is a joke. If life meant life ( like they promised when Harold Wilson banned capitol punishment ) then OK but it does not. The term life is a complete joke.
I would not just bring back for officers of the law but all killings with the exception of
1. Genuine impulse crimes where you could say probably did not mean to kill.
2. Where there is any doubt.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Greengoddess


Posts: 27
Joined: Aug 2006
Post: #5
01-07-2009 04:47 PM

Life in Prison should mean now 'till the day you die. Well then, lets change the rules...WE ARE THE PEOPLE after all. The services are, were always revered for their jobs but now really aren't and the Death Penalty attached to their murder in line of duty has always been seen as a deterrant. Times change on a daily basis. But none the less thats 3 assaults in less than one week with 1/4 of a mile. I just think its got relly bad, really quickly that's all.

Find all posts by this user Reply
michael


Posts: 3,197
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #6
01-07-2009 04:51 PM

I completely agree that the death penalty should be re-introduced, just as soon as they have a way to reverse the penalty in the case of a miscarriage of justice (of which there are still far too many).

Find all posts by this user Reply
brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #7
01-07-2009 05:08 PM

Michael
There are enough cases where there is NO doubt whatsoever.

I did say any element of doubt the life imprisonment ( and in most cases should mean life)

Do not worry the establishment for some reason say will not discuss whatever the people say. Hence one reason why people support extreme parties when the so called main stream parties say we know what is good for you. Of course we live in gated house in Esher.

Find all posts by this user Reply
michael


Posts: 3,197
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #8
01-07-2009 05:50 PM

Every conviction is 'beyond reasonable doubt'. There was absolutely no doubt in the case of Sally Clark, Barry George, Birmingham Six, Guildford Four, and many more . Surely there is 'no doubt' when there is a confession of guilt by the 'murderer' or when there is clear forensic evidence, unfortunately it is only with many years hindsight that it becomes clear that there should have been a very real doubt.

It is easy to call for the execution of only the guilty, but you have to accept that mistakes and deliberate stitch-ups will take place. How many of these innocent people would you have been willing to see executed?

Find all posts by this user Reply
Contrary Mary


Posts: 124
Joined: Oct 2008
Post: #9
01-07-2009 07:14 PM

I am with Michael and GreenGoddess on this one.

The miscarriage of justice risk is a no-brainer, really. In the case of the likes of Peter Sutcliffe and Harold Shipman: Death is far, far too good for 'em.

And additionally, with regard to...

"Genuine impulse crimes where you could say probably did not mean to kill"...

I am curious: What would you have done with the likes of Emma Humphreys, Sara Thornton, Kiranjit Ahluwalia and others who killed after years of domestic violence, bearing in mind that some of them were considered unsavoury characters at the time of their original trials (and therefore 'obviously guilty'), and another was convicted despite the introduction of the provocation defence and knowledge of her history of abuse, due to the evidence of an 'expert witness' that she was "remarkably resilient"?

Find all posts by this user Reply
brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #10
02-07-2009 07:54 AM

No one has answered the question about the evil New Cross killer of the French Students.

Also can someone explain
How can you have a drug problem in prisons. How are they getting in?
Why have they got expensive gyms to make them stronger for when they come out.
Anyone found taking drugs in should get 10 years.
Why does not life mean life.
They should be put to work in prison to earn their food.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Cidered


Posts: 50
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #11
02-07-2009 08:11 AM

Personally the death penalty wouldn't make me feel safer from crime - unless people are suggesting that Peter Sutcliffe, Dano Sonnex etc are rational men who would have considered the possible risks of their actions, weighed things up and decided it would be better to return to the straight and narrow?

Or are we just talking about a desire for revenge and for saving public money?

Find all posts by this user Reply
ontheedge


Posts: 31
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #12
02-07-2009 08:54 AM

Brian et al you'll probably find all your answers in the Daily Mail.

Find all posts by this user Reply
millesens


Posts: 65
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #13
02-07-2009 09:53 AM

Brian you ought to address your unanswered questions to the Human Rights minds who believe a terrorist should never be deported to his/her home country, say Saudi Arabia (where the inmates may not have an en-suite, state of the heart entertainment rooms, gym, jacuzzi, sauna, tennis court, etc...) because they may be mistreated and fed on a diet of bread and water, possibly made to feel sorry for taking the lives of dozens of innocent people. Not to mention the fact that capital punishment is still very legal and enforced there.

I am categorically against death penalty and other corporal punishements ( amputations, lashings, stoning just to mention a few) which are a barbaric and outdated practice but would wish to see a reform of the prison system in this country. Avarage rape sentences at around 5 years spent in a relatively privileged environment, how is this supposed to be a deterrant ?

Find all posts by this user Reply
roz


Posts: 1,790
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #14
02-07-2009 10:42 AM

Whats suddenly brought all this on, Brian?

The death penalty has never reduced the murder rate in the US. Many spend years on death row which some would say is a fate worse than execution.

The New Cross killers were clearly sick and deranged men.

There are still too many cases of wrongful conviction to trust the system and to trust the police. I have been involved only as witness in an inquest and a witness in an assault case, but the lies I have seen told by police officers in both cases in court under oath and the administrative incompetence in taking witness statements made me sorry for the offenders.

Barry George is a good case in point. He was hounded for years and his life ruined by incompetent police investigations and wrongful conviction. The technology for proving guilt beyond reasonable doubt has improved but there is still too much room for human error and misjudgement.

Personally I think that as a society we are better than this and no matter how heinous the crime, I would not want to live in a country with such a barbaric practice.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #15
02-07-2009 12:32 PM

I notice that the people who loudly decry 'holiday camp' prisons tend not to volunteer to spend any time in them.

I also notice that those who so loudly believe that they are the silent majority are also fondest of claiming that they're a victimised minority when it suits them. Sometimes within the same post.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #16
02-07-2009 12:35 PM

Quote:
For instance can anyone say the two thugs who killed and tortured the French Students in New Cross should not have their lives ended.?


Yes, I can.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Cellar Door


Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #17
02-07-2009 12:54 PM

brian Wrote:
No one has answered the question about the evil New Cross killer of the French Students.

I've been trying to discern what and why you are asking this, brian.

I would very much like to keep Nigel Farmer and Daniel Sonnex alive for relentless research. We've got 35 and 40 years respectively to explore their psyche. My focus is much more on Daniel rather than Nigel. Although the relationship between Nigel and Daniel has me interested. My guess is that Daniel was acting out with Nigel to repair some damage in the relationship with his older brother Bernie.

This is, of course, Offender Profiling and has a long history with Scotland Yard. I'd like to think of the thousands, if not millions, of crimes that have never happened are a consequence of hundreds of years of Offender Profiling. Offender Profiling looks at the big picture. Sending to death the offenders is hardly worth the bother after the crime has been done, wouldn't you say? I'd rather use them as part of our toolbag to search for the future killers before the crime.

Brian, if I found Dano Sonnex before the New Cross slaughter and proposed that he had an extremely likely probability of killing, what would you suggest the next step to be?

Find all posts by this user Reply
michael


Posts: 3,197
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #18
02-07-2009 01:40 PM

brian Wrote:
No one has answered the question about the evil New Cross killer of the French Students.


Are you 100% sure that they are the murderers? Both of them not only one of them?
If one was proved to be mentally unfit to understand the difference between right and wrong and was doing what he was told (not that I am saying this is definately the case), would you still execute both of them?

You still haven't answered the question about what to do in the event of a miscarriage of justice. Are you willing to die yourself if your actions in implementing the death penalty led to the death of an innocent person, despite my persistant warnings? In my view you are already guilty of attempted pre-medidated murder of person or persons unknown.

Find all posts by this user Reply
sydenhamcentral


Posts: 269
Joined: Mar 2008
Post: #19
02-07-2009 04:55 PM

Because someone kills another human being doesn't mean that gives the state the right to kill them.

But they do have the right to take away their freedom for life.

The death penalty doesn't lead to less murder. We are a civilized society. There have always been, evil or sick and deranged individuals out there who harm others, it's not like it's just started happening.

Anger and revenge IS NOT justice.

Find all posts by this user Reply
brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #20
02-07-2009 05:56 PM

I agree the problem apparently is that this person should not have been out of prison. To put back Michael's point should the person responsible for him being at large spend a life in prison.

I think we should agree to differ. I remember in early 70's and going on holiday to Tunisia and we were told no need to lock any doors as locals know what will happen to them if they steal anything. Maybe a bit extreme but is their less violent crime in muslim countries.

As I said the establishment will ensure capitol punishment never returns so do not worry.

Do we all agree that the sentance of life should mean life. Other sentances should get another name.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Pages (2): « First [1] 2 Next > Last »

Friends of Blythe Hill Fields