'Evil triumphs when the good people remain silent'

I have no intention of remaining silent. The sooner you stand up to facism the sooner it can be defeated, and if a few eggs get broken in the process, then this is preferable to letting the BNP get a hold in the nation's politics and waiting until Kristalnacht to turn a blind eye and say there is nothing we can do.

I have visited pubs in Eltham when the BNP had their bookshop round the corner. It was not a pleasant place to drink (I am sure others have better stories). I do not want to live in a country that accepts racism as part of the political system, it is bad enough when this infects one small local area. Racism must be fought in a variety of ways and decent people from ethnic minorities must know that we consider them as 'British' as anybody else in this country.

I think that the focus of peoples anger against the BNP is misdirected. Those who were to lazy to get off their ***** to vote allowed the BNP to slip in. If everyone voted for the parties they wanted in the chances of the BNP getting any seats would have been slim.

As much as we may dislike the BNP they were elected by voters in a democratic election, the more focus that there is on them means more chance of them getting their message across.

There are far more urgent things to focus on right now without giving the BNP more ammunition and by default, more voters.

I have always believed that it is better to counter extreme organisations by force of argument rather than just plain force. That way you take away their support. All the egg thowing incident has done has given the BNP much more publicity than it would have otherwise, and possibly painted them in the role of almost victims

Michael I do understand your views and do agree these people are a total disgrace however I think violence against them plays into their hands.
I also agree with others that the people who should be ashamed are those who could not bother to vote. Not voting is a disgrace , perhaps compulsory voting like Australia would assist in reducing the racists percentage vote.
When I went to vote no one else at all , passed one lady on way out.
As I have said thankfully no MEP's in London region.

My heart agrees with Michael but my head agrees with John. I will be signing the petition but don't as yet know what other action will have the most impact in the long run. They will get so much more exposure if pelted with dairy products but I agree that we cannot let them spout their views unchallenged. There are many people/communities who live in fear of them and their supporters and therefore enabling people to feel secure needs to be a priority hence demonstrating revulsion for their views should now a primary responsibility of the white British public. If a petition is a start on this then I'm on board. My partners grandparents were of German/Slovakian Jewish heritage who by various methods escaped Nazi Germany in the late 30's and managed to get into the UK more by luck. Not everyone did, as is well documented, as immigration by Jewish refugees was often blocked or became a lengthy process which made it too late for so many. It was a close call as the rest of their families were either killed in the camps or shot by the Nazis as many were members of the Slovakian resistance. The effects of the Holocaust are still very much with subsequent generations, whether they were directly affected or not. To have to sit and endure Nick Griffin on TV, a racist who has been convicted of same in the past, along with newsreel of Hungarian Nazis parading their own success in the European Parliament has already chilled our family to the bone.

I have spoken to family members in the north (they didn't vote for them) who say that the BNP success in two specific communities is a local 'phenomenon' largely driven by concern about rising unemployment and the usual view that immigrant communities get more support than the state ie economic fear and loathing. It is therefore questionable whether this can be seen as a general move to the far right by large parts of the electorate. I would therefore be careful about the interpretation of their success as to over react may give them more credence. Lets be wary of them but do not give them the opportunity to exploit our fear and insecurities. The far right may be an awkward and frightening presence, but they do not yet have substantial power in the policy making process. The question however is how to undermine their support and to prevent further electoral success.

As someone else has said, there is already a substantial far right representation in the European Parliament, some much more extreme than the BNP. I don't think therefore think a petition will have much impact there but it might make us all feel we're doing something constructive. As much as it pains me to say it, let them go on Question Time and try and defend their views and again, incorrect historical facts. How can their views possibly stand up under scrutiny and argument? There is no such thing as 'indigenous British Peoples' etc- any basic historical research would demonstrate that the UK is historically a nation of immigrants, and only in the last few centuries has been anything remotely resembling a nation.
Their views have in the past been largely written for and digested by a select audience who already agreed with them. They have not had to openly present and debate their policies in a wider more challenging environment. Unfortunately I think that the only way to get rid of them in the long run is to let them talk themselves out of a job. And of course a much stronger Government with more proactive and supportive economic policies. And to those who think that this is now time for a General Election? Forget it- the likely outcome is a low gain for the Cons/Lib Dems and more power to the BNP. Nothing to be achieved there.

PS and some change to the law that prevents persons convicted of racist acts inc incitement of racial hatred from standing for public office......I'm sure it must be possible.

Agree with Roz. Convicted racists should not be allowed to stand.
And that should extend in principle to those convicted of any crime really.

To the original question, I'm sure it is illegal to post any offensive material.
But any out-and-out racist would have been quite disappointed by the BNP's leaflet - it could not be called offensive in any way.

The greater concern for me is that all the parties move even further to the right to partly cover the BNP's underlying agenda. Keep an eye on them too.

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:5s2...clnk&gl=uk

I suppose one could start with the direct mail approach to BNP members, appealing to their consciences and better sides. List attached.
Interesting comment against some names ie ' proof of entitlement seen'. Wonder what that means. Also interesting range of professions including what appears to be a doctor living in se26....

There are 4 SE23 addresses on that list.
But before anyone starts a which hunt,

1. the compilers of this list (BNP) are hardly trustworthy in the first place,
2. this is raw unmaintained data without any mechanism to correct mistakes now it has been leaked,
3. It is not clear if these are members, people who have asked for material for research, potential recruits from other data sources, or ironically perhaps people who have requested BNP's offensive literature is not delivered to their address.

So it would be wrong to draw concrete conclusions about any individuals listed, some who will never had any contact with this organisation, let alone be fully paid up members.

But putting that to one side, publishing their political views is a gross breach of their rights, and while they might not have any concerns if the (jack) boot were on the other foot, that does not make it right.

Surely the guilty are not only those who voted BNP but also those who could not bother to vote ( Many many more )
I never can understand anyone not considering it of utmost importance to exercise their franchise. Society does not ask much of its citizens nowadays but voting is so important.
No one has admitted on this site to not bothering to vote so good to know we are all good citizens.

Taking up Brian's point the turnout was 34% of eligible voters. The highest scoring party were the conservatives with 28% of the vote. This means that they got less than 10% of all those elegible to vote. The other parties obviously did much worse with labour at around 6%

Thanks John
I assume that was total of all London. This means 66% could not be bothered to do their social duty.
People on any sort of Govenment hand out , benefit , unemployment pay etc etc should have to vote otherwise lose their handout .
Extremists would find it much more difficult if all voted.

I wasn't suggesting a witch hunt. The material is already widely available on the internet. As membership of a fascist party is forbidden in many jobs, and potentially problematic in others,I think its original publication and subsequent posting was and is in the public interest. I for one would want to know if a workman I employ or a doctor I visit is a BNP member in order to protect my family. I believe its fairly easy from ordinary political canvassing to determine peoples voting patterns so I see no issue with BNP supporters being identified. Presumably if they get as far as membership they are proud to hold their views?
It wasn't so long ago that you had to declare membership of the Communist Party of Great Britain on job applications and that this was forbidden for many taking up public service posts, so revealing BNP support is to me fair dos.
No doubt there are inaccuracies and many of the phone numbers and email addresses have been changed since earlier this year, no doubt having been already widely used by protesters since publication.

I do find it interesting that the entire Griffin family appear to live in Wales, not England, as the Welsh, and the Cornish, are surely as far as I recall descended from Celtic invaders from what is now called France. Their profile as a family is very interesting and not just a little horrific. Nick Griffin is a wealthy, privately educated Cambridge graduate. They are not thick and stupid people in the traditional sense which makes it all a bit more scary. I think people should Google them to see just what we are dealing with. There are various ways of opposing them and I think people need to choose what they are comfortable with, if they are so inclined.

I vote and always will because I grew up in a community where many people were deprived of the right to do so for so long (Northern Ireland)- but am glad that people are still given the choice and I wouldn't want to see compulsory voting. How can that be helpful? People will just go in and spoil the ballot paper or more likely, vote for marginal parties such as the BNP to get their own back. It must surely skew results in other countries that have it.

Roz
Many valid points but can mention that not all Welsh come from the Britons who were here in Roman Times. Like Scots and English all UK people are a complete mixture of Germanic , Native Britons and many other origins.
I have no idea of the origin of The Griffin Family and not very interested but being from Wales does not mean you are Native British or Celt. Anyway it is The BNP not the ENP .
Strange I agree and a bit worrying that Adolf came from Austria , Stalin from Georgia and Fuehrer Griffin from Wales.

By some accounts Griffin is a relative charmer compared to the other newly elected BNP member, Andrew 'death to jews' Brons.

However, still it was an illegal act for that list to be published. People are entitled to their private views, even racist views, and the BNP are a legitimate party at the end of the day. They and more importantly their families should not be exposed to the threat of physical attack by (other) extremists.

Now if they are marching down the street in their KKK outfits, that is another matter....

I am not in favour of any violence for any political objectives, nor do I think it will benefit the community to single out a few individuals in the area who are members of the party.

The petition/campaign that I linked to - http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/notinmyname - is organised by Searchlight, which has spoken out against violence in opposing the BNP - see article. This is why I feel it is useful to support a campaign that is carefully and responsibly organised by people who have a long history of opposing racism.

Signing up to HopeNotHate in no way condones violence, it is part of a carefully organised campaign to defeat the hate spread by Far Right parties in this country, but Searchlight also works against racism across all of Europe and beyond.

Michael, very nicely argued. It does indeed take some deeper thinking than what I'd previously gauged.

Out of the 53,408 votes cast in Lewisham for the 2009 European Election, you should note that 2083 were cast for the BNP.
For UKIP, that figure is 4710. This is something to bear in mind.

link

That looks like a landslide for Labour in Lewisham despite the economy.
I'm not sure how proportional representation works, but I think the top 4 (including the greens) qualify for the champions league, UKIP and the christians are in europa, and the BNP's hopes rest on their standing in the fair play league.

This does suggest voters switching away from the parties at Westminster, but I shall not try to interpret the party results further as I try very hard not to show any party political bias publicly (other than a strong dislike for the BNP).

One other point I would make is comparing these numbers to the petition to Keep Swimming in Forst Hill, a petition that got around 5,800 signatures mainly around 3 wards (out of 54 wards in Lewisham - or 5% of the population).

Apart from representing more people than any of the parties other than the 4 big parties. This is taken across a small part of Lewisham. In fact the number of signatures represents 10% of the total electorate in Lewisham from 2009, in an area 5% of the size. Or to put it in simple terms, approximately 3000-4000 people voted across three ward - less than the signatures on the petition. This would suggest that the petition is more representative of the local community than ALL POLITICAL PARTIES COMBINED.

Of course I would like to think that turnout in Forest Hill, Perry Vale, and Sydenham is higher than in other wards. Even so this shows just how strong feeling is in the local area regarding the location of the pools.