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Schooling
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roz


Posts: 1,790
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #1
20-05-2009 03:29 PM

From the thread School Places in SE23

IWereAbsolutelyFuming Wrote:
once you've got used to paying that for a bog standard nursery place you start to view the cost of private schools differently...


Good points made about the cost of childcare by IWAF; I had been thinking the same myself when I found out that I am paying Dulwich College levels of fees for a childminder and that costs of ?11-?12k per year are standard for both nursery and childminder fees,especially with younger children.

Although the Early Years Curriculum is great on paper, and great when your child gets a free nursery place, it does seem as if until that time the rest of us are paying for a private education already for children as young as 1-2 years old. Childminders have had to change the way they work to accommodate revised regulation practices by OFSTED and more stringent training requirements, and as a result have had to raise their fees. Many seem to be giving up altogether as they can't cope with the admin. Whilst is good to have so much professionalism in the sector I don't really see why my child has to follow a curriculum and structured sessions before two years old when all thats really needed is a safe pair of hands and a talent for inspiring children.

I agree these costs put private education into perspective however there will be additional costs such as uniforms, extra curricular classes and school trips to factor in, as well as the usual living expenses. Then there is making sure that you keep up with the Jonese on parents evenings in order not to let your child down.

I'd consider a private education for my child, even from 4th form, if I could afford it and felt it was critical to their academic success. Other than that what advantage can be gained from being forced to hang out with a load of rich kids who have more money than you. I went to a fairly strict girls grammar after passing my 11 plus; it was full of rich girls who hadn't passed as they didn't bother working for it and they could pay full fees. I do remember feeling very out of place with my second hand taken up uniform and second hand books. I wouldn't want my child to feel as inferior as I did. And is a private education even at secondary level automatically any better? Why not just supplement it with private lessons and tutoring as needed. Surely a much better and more affordable tactic?

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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #2
21-05-2009 07:14 AM

Before blowing the mortgage money on your darlings' education, consider also - are they going to really benefit. If they are not academically inclined, they may not be happy in such an environment, although those who are aiming for sporting achievement are also well catered for. It should be all about what suits your child, not what suits you.

I would also mention that there are outstandingly good free secondary secondary schools - Eltham, St. Olave's - though competition for places is intense. And the posh schools do all offer bursaries and scholarships to encourage those who aren't minted to apply.

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Miss Miaow


Posts: 7
Joined: Mar 2008
Post: #3
21-05-2009 08:50 AM

We live in Crofton Park and are fortunate to have good state primary schools on our doorstep. Our daughters are able to walk to school in 10 minutes which is great. HOWEVER we are now beginning to consider where our eldest will go to secondary school. We are practicing catholics and ideally would like her to attend a catholic school, but there are none remotely within walking distance. Given that she will inevitably have to travel, I was wondering if any one reading this post has been in our position & has any advice.

thanks

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #4
21-05-2009 09:35 AM

Miss Miaow.
Whilst I appreciate your wish to get the very best education for your eldest I think faith schools are not the route to go. Surely one of the benefits of our state system is children can meet people of all faiths and none. Society in fact.
Also surely after seeing the goings on in Catholic Schools in Eire people would avoid them .
I understand it is your decision and you must do what you consider best for your child. But do not think she would thank you if your choice involved a lot of travelling.

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michael


Posts: 3,196
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #5
21-05-2009 10:32 AM

Brian,
The activities in Catholic childrens' homes should in no way reflect on the Catholic Schools in this country and I am surprised that you would suggest such a linkage.

Whilst I would prefer there to be no religious schools, I do not think it is appropriate to scaremonger like this. It would be similar to saying a child was stabbed in a state school in France, so don't send your children to a state school in London.

I would add that for girls living in Crofton Park, Prendergast has an excellent reputation and was visited by the Prime Minister a few weeks ago. If I were Miss Miaow I would seriously consider this school before planning to move so that my daughter could attend a Catholic school.

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Dotcom


Posts: 39
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #6
21-05-2009 10:46 AM

Miss Miaow - they would need to be attending a Catholic primary school.

Around here, although they're not really around here, is St Ursula's in Greenwich, Bonus Pastor in Downham, Coloma Convent in Shirley and there are other feeder Catholic secondary schools too and I'm sure you can find all of that online.

Brian - let's not turn a thread about schools into a debate about religion - please.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #7
21-05-2009 11:45 AM

Yes probably stupid of me to combine both items just think Faith schools are divisive in society. Certainly I have no eveidence that such abuse happens or happened in The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
I personally believe the government should not fund such schools.
Surely all our children , certainly those whose education is state funded , should be taught in multi faith schools.

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Dotcom


Posts: 39
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #8
21-05-2009 11:48 AM

Brian - I did say 'please'.

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Miss Miaow


Posts: 7
Joined: Mar 2008
Post: #9
21-05-2009 11:52 AM

Oh dear,

I did not expect Brian's reply! I was not asking for a debate on Catholicism or the existence of faith schools. I was very disappointed by the tenor of his post.

However, the situation is that my girls are at catholic primary schools. Prendergast is a very good school and I would be perfectly happy for my eldest to go there BUT we are not in the catchment area and have been told that we have little or no chance of getting in ( I understand that only one child from my daughter's primary school was allocated a place there in the last academic year & she has special needs so was a priority)

All I was really looking for was comments on the catholic secondary schools children in this area attend from someone who has or knows of a child at any particular one of these schools.

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #10
21-05-2009 11:52 AM

Quote:
Surely one of the benefits of our state system is children can meet people of all faiths and none. Society in fact.
Also surely after seeing the goings on in Catholic Schools in Eire people would avoid them .



As a comparative newcomer to this site, I've only just realized that 'brian' isn't a real person! (Why wasn't I warned?) It has now dawned on me that 'he' is in fact a clever fiction devised by the Management as a medium for winding people like me up and encouraging us to post in protest. But now I know, I shan't, so there!

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Johnc


Posts: 138
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #11
21-05-2009 12:09 PM

I think you will find that Brian has an opinion on everything - not that there is anything wrong with that of course

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #12
21-05-2009 12:50 PM

There is no concept of getting your name down early for primary/secondary schools now. Depending on your childs date/year of entry into the schooling system you'll have a latest date by which you have to apply prior to that. Applications are dealt with against set criteria and the order in which all the applications are received isn't one of them.

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michael


Posts: 3,196
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #13
21-05-2009 01:08 PM

The best way for a child to get a place in the school of their parents' choice is for them to have an older sibling already at the school. Parents who want their children to go to the right school should get them fostered by parents with children already in the school of their choice, preferably within the catchment area.

(It was my turn to talk nonsense, wasn't it? I have been far too sensible lately)

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roz


Posts: 1,790
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #14
21-05-2009 02:23 PM

Having known Brian for a long time on this website and had some interesting debates with him, I don't think causing offence is actually his primary motive. I would also have thought that a decent debate on religious v secular schooling has a place on the non se23 part of this forum as its a fair question. I also come from Ireland and have been aware of such stories as in the headlines yesterday, for many years since I was a young child. The rumours were rife in a small Catholic community who felt powerless to express any discontent against the Church. I'm afraid I don't therefore see whats been recently formally disclosed in ROI as being outside the boundaries of discussion on this website if not on this particular thread.

The formal institution of the Catholic Church has most definitely colluded in the cover up of some serious abuses of human rights of young people and as such there is no real distinction between one type of Catholic institution in ROI and another in the UK. There is also surely a need for a formal clean up of its act, much in the same way there needs to be one of the Mother of all Parliaments in the UK. And perhaps a review of the potentially contributory celibacy policy which is not based on religious belief, but the wish of the Catholic Church to no longer finance families of its clergy.

BTW don't we all have an opinion on everything ,and isn't that what makes this website so interesting...

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #15
21-05-2009 02:46 PM

Roz Wrote:
BTW don't we all have an opinion on everything ,and isn't that what makes this website so interesting...


I'm not sure about that.[/quote]

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #16
21-05-2009 02:55 PM

Thank you Roz for your kind comments. As you say i cannot see anything controversial about seeing a devisive problem in society with faith schools. But of course people can say what they want and are quite entitled so to do.
I am not anti religious but just object to faith schools. God be with you all.

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michael


Posts: 3,196
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #17
21-05-2009 03:57 PM

Roz Wrote:
The formal institution of the Catholic Church has most definitely colluded in the cover up of some serious abuses of human rights of young people


Abuses of human right sounds so weak these days, as if they prevented them from having an umbrella in a rain storm. What happened in Ireland was that the church and the state were providing children to peadophile priests. Both institutions, as well as many senior officials in the church, were moving priests around to prevent them being exposed and to allow the abuse of children to continue.

By allowing the priests to move from one home to another and spread their network, this was a criminal conspiracy to rape and indecently assault hundreds, possibly thousands, of vunerable children. And a deliberate conspiracy to silence any individuals who raised complaints. The scale of the abuse and the cover up make it one of the worst systematic abuses of children in Europe in the later half of the 20th century. These are real issues that the entire Catholic church needs to take extremely seriously.

That said, it is completely unfair to link Catholic schools in London today to this abuse in Ireland. You might as well accuse the schools of torturing Galileo and hundreds of thousands of others in the Inquision. Catholic schools in London do not allow this type of behaviour and I am sure they, and every Catholic in London, would condemn the actions of the Irish church (not that they should feel that they must apologise for anything as they are not individually to blame). In the same way I think most people understand that the vast majority of Muslim schools do not automatically support terrorism and Jihad in the UK, nor does every Muslim or Islamic institution need to apologise for the London bombs.

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Toffeejim


Posts: 84
Joined: Nov 2004
Post: #18
21-05-2009 07:56 PM

Roz,

In earlier posts you have made your views on religion in general and Catholicism in particular entirely clear. If you want to discuss the structure or ethics of Catholic institutions perhaps you could make use of the existing thread on religion or begin one dedicated to your theme - rather than using a straightforward enquiry about secondary schools as a vehicle to reiterate your prejudices. I'm sure that concerned Catholic parents in the area will offer any new thread the attention it deserves.

Oh, and Brian, do you only post after downing a couple of tins of Special Brew? Otherwise I have to say there are times you leave me somewhat at a loss.

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #19
21-05-2009 07:59 PM

As I understand it, the rationale for state-supported faith schools is that parents should be able to have their children educated in a way which reflects the values of their faith rather than the post-Christian or secular values which underpin education in LA-run schools. I don't know of any evidence that faith schools, at any rate in England, have a bad effect on relationships between different faiths or ethnicities. Indeed, certainly so far as Christian schools are concerned, I would expect them positively to encourage their students to develop tolerance and a wide human sympathy.

I believe that it is widely disputed that priestly celibacy is a significant factor in the sexual abuse of children within the Catholic Church. As a Catholic myself, I have strong doubts about the continuing appropriateness of priestly celibacy as a compulsory Church discipline but I think it nevertheless has more to be said for it than Roz suggests.

BTW, unlike Roz (and Brian?) I don't have an opinion on everything; for example, I am totally indifferent as to whether or not the Victorian frontage of FH pools should be preserved!

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Dotcom


Posts: 39
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #20
21-05-2009 09:00 PM

Oh Lordy this thread............

Anyways ditto what Toffejim said. Good on you.

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