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Lewisham agree the Crofton Park & Honor Oak CPZ
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StuartG


Posts: 74
Joined: Apr 2011

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Post: #1
10-12-2022 04:36 PM

The council have approved a CPZ consultation that covers much of Crofton Park & Honor Oak The document can be downloaded here: https://councilmeetings.lewisham.gov.uk/...report.pdf

The area is shown here:


Stuart

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samuelsen


Posts: 380
Joined: Feb 2016

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Post: #2
10-12-2022 09:03 PM

Perhaps include the word consultation in the title of this thread stage 1, Stage 2 moves further into Forest Hill

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StuartG


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Post: #3
10-12-2022 11:56 PM

I am unableto edit the title. However, the body makes it clear.

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OakR


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Post: #4
11-12-2022 12:00 PM

This looks like a done deal in terms of whether it will happen or not.

Point 1.9 on the linked pdf says:

The existing Parking Policy (2014) notes that “CPZs will be introduced where over
50% of consultees in the proposed area are in support of a CPZ implementation
.”
Since this policy was published, the Council has declared a Climate Emergency, set
out an ambitious Air Quality Action Plan, the population in the borough has grown to
exceed 300,000 people, and car ownership has reduced to 47% of households. The
Parking Policy requires updating to reflect the needs of Lewisham residents and
contemporary policy guidance. In order to minimise the impacts of displacement,
CPZs should be implemented based on the recommendation of officers with
consideration to the feedback of residents on each street
, in conjunction with data of
parking pressure, road safety, air quality, and walking and cycling needs, as set out
in Section 8 of this report. This will enable the implementation of bespoke zones
created that meet the needs of residents, businesses and the local area.


So this sounds like the consultation will be more about how it should be implemented, as opposed to whether it will.

I guess (and it may be in the document) there will be an analysis of what problem they are trying to solve with this. Part of it clearly is to reduce car traffic and encourage other means of transport, though this is stated as in addition:

In addition, each agreed CPZ will be taken forward with
measures to encourage residents to switch to more sustainable ways to travel to their destination, like walking, cycling or public transport. These measures may include:
 Electric vehicle charging points
 Bike hangars
 Improved pedestrian crossings
 Tree planting
 Parklets and green spaces
 Footway widening
 Car clubs
 Cycle hire


I think it's going to be one of these schemes where the aim is to get people using 'greener' forms of transport and move people further away from car ownership, but the actual aim may be stated differently causing confusion.

Of course, if this comes in, for those people who need a car there will be an additional cost when moneny is scarce for many, something recognised in the PDF.

Historically these schemes have often come in to stop people driving to stations, venues etc and parking all day stopping residents being able to park. I'm not sure if that is still the case now.

I'd prefer to have a scheme that doens't allow non-residents to park say 12-2 but where residents can purchase tickets for family / tradespeople etc who are required to visit for who public transport might not be an option. This would stop the all day parking, but provide a balance where people can still be visited.

In terms of other options, I'd like more work done with police to crack down on bicylcle theft. If we want people to cycle to the shops, train stations etc those people need to be able to do so reasonably safe in the knowledge their bikes will still be there when they return.

I'm all for making the area greener with various plants and trees, though it has to be done properly of course.

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borderpaul


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Post: #5
14-12-2022 11:24 AM

I think there is a need to rethink CPZs.

It seems very regressive that somebody with a shiny £30-50K electric car gets to pay very little while those with an older/low value car have to pay a lot. The ULEZ has removed the older more polluting petrol and diesel vehicles while it is now known that electric cars spew out more equally toxic cyanide laced brake dust because of their heavier weight.

A lot of the commuter parking had disappeared but many people prefer one car blocking up a space for 8 hours with one set of pollution than 8 cars parking in the same space with 8 times the pollution.

All the sustainable measures sound really good, why don't they just put them in now as a lot of them pay for themselves or aren't expensive rather than tell people you will only get them if you agree a CPZ.


Slightly off topic, the Council should be looking at what they control. They own the Forest Hill swimming pool which generates an enormous amount of vehicle traffic mainly single or two person occupied cars which in many cases passes the windows of a school 5 metres from the road. Does the Climate Emergency not apply to the indirect pollution they generate?

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michael


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Post: #6
14-12-2022 11:58 AM

What should the council do? Close the swimming pool because people drive there? A CPZ might mean that visitors to the pool use one of the designated car parks or possibly even use a bus / bike.

I'm sure the permits for electric cars will start increased once the most polluting cars have been priced off the roads.

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borderpaul


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Post: #7
14-12-2022 12:27 PM

Nobody wants the swimming pool closed just an acknowledgement by the Council to local residents that their justification for not providing parking "We expect all users of the swimming pool to use public transport" was wrong and they should work towards reducing the impact on local schools and residents of the pollution it causes. There are many ways this can be done but the first step is acknowledging the pollution and working from there with some carrot and stick policies.

You can do both, have a high charge for the most polluting cars and for expensive EVs. The government in the latest budget is phasing in road tax for EVs with many of them also being caught by the expensive car tax rate. Lewisham should do the same now.

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Sherwood


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Post: #8
14-12-2022 01:00 PM

Why are electric vehicles being targeted? I thought they were the long-term solution. I have heard that their tyres are noisy! Now they are heavy. If there is a problem with their brakes, it needs to be fixed.

If the policy is no cars, that needs to be addressed directly and not indirectly.

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StuartG


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Joined: Apr 2011

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Post: #9
14-12-2022 02:48 PM

EVs are 'less worse' than internal combustion engined (ICE) vehicles in creating less damaging pollution and emissions. But that's all. They cause the same congestion - are probably up there with SUVs in collision risk.

The problem is that most of our public space is occupied by vehicles. Most of them being empty and denying space to people. That's people on foot on bikes or even in cars, vans, busses and lorries trying to get somewhere. Cars can offer great convenience but managing the inconvenience is the challenging bit.

CPZs are just one imperfect step.

This post was last modified: 14-12-2022 02:50 PM by StuartG.

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lacb


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Post: #10
20-01-2023 04:18 PM

Thanks for posting this StuartG.

Once again, Honor Oak is like the forgotten child. The way the consultation boundaries are drawn up are deeply flawed it seems.

Am not aware of a parking problem in any part of Crofton Park ward except near Honor Oak Park station. There has historically been a problem with this on both sides of the tracks near HOP but post-COVID/ULEZ expansion there is much less of an issue with parking. However, by consulting just East of the tracks, and assuming this gets approved, this will just result in all the park and ride going to the west (Forest Hill ward) side instead, thereby creating a problem all lined up for the next stage!

Meanwhile, there is this proposal, which seems most unimaginative and also seems to have in-built assumption that a CPZ will get approved.

What does happen, every weekday, is massive rat-running down Devonshire Road: car damage, pollution, unsociable behaviour and unsafe driving all stem from this. Some focus on LTN in this area is horrendously overdue, especially given that the area about to consulted on has already had them for decades. This would be tricky to solve but not insurmountable and way more productive than tinkering with CPZs and no clear objective.

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Runner_rich


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Joined: Sep 2022

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Post: #11
23-01-2023 01:49 PM

Couldn't agree more and I suspect the money will run-out before Devonshire gets a look in.

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michal


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Joined: Nov 2007

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Post: #12
23-01-2023 04:46 PM

When it comes to parking, I think the Council is trying to create a problem which doesn't really exist. As far as I am aware, apart from the immediate vicinity of trains stations there are no problems with parking. People will still need cars to cover situations that aren't covered by public transport / cycling / walking, etc.
What will happen is that more front gardens will be paved over to create driveways. As for the environmental aspects of this push, why then on Bexhill Road are they proposing only one EV charging point for 130+ properties, chopping one fully grown tree to be replaced by a small young one? If the council really had environmental issues at heart, then they should be putting loads of EV chargers and lining the streets with lots of trees / plants. What about traffic calming initiatives, dealing with speeding, pavement parking, pedestrian crossings?

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lacb


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Post: #13
Yesterday 12:55 PM

Completely agreed @michal.

The Friends of Honor Oak have posted about this: http://honoroak.org/news/lewisham-cpz/

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