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South Eastern trains from Forest Hill
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nottinghillbilly


Posts: 503
Joined: Dec 2010
Post: #1
30-05-2022 09:04 PM

As no doubt many are aware the SE Service to London Bridge was cut from 4 trains an hour to just two with the total loss of the Victoria service on Weekdays.
I have been in contact with My local MP Ellie Reeves regarding this as the Overground is becoming increasingly overcrowded during rush hour and it just seems ridiculous with more and more people returning to the office that full service has not been re-instated.
The latest news on this is that for the foreseeable we will only have 2 southern trains an hour but worst of all is that they are replacing the current fleet of 8-10 carriage trains with a new younger fleet consisting of just 5 carriages.
I understand the same thing is happening on the East Dulwich route too.
I wondered if others felt as angry about this as me...

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rbmartin


Posts: 866
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #2
30-05-2022 10:53 PM

Compared to the other Southern Metro lines, we still have many more trains per hour than the others combined under the new timetable including the Overground.

Yes it's inconvenient that there's no longer 4 trains per hour on Monday to Saturdays, but at least we can still get out of FH in under 7 mins by changing at Canada Water for London Bridge.

For comparison:

Forest Hill 10tph - 8 Overground, 2 Southern.
East Dulwich. 3tph (4tph peaks). 2 to Caterham, 1 to Beckenham Junction (2 in peaks).

This post was last modified: 30-05-2022 10:54 PM by rbmartin.

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nottinghillbilly


Posts: 503
Joined: Dec 2010
Post: #3
31-05-2022 08:55 PM

Point taken,
However as a daily commuter into Central London and back during rush hour the Canada water interchange is not adequate for the amount of people using it, Its a real crush going onto the escalator to the Jubilee Line Platforms and actually pretty scary.

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blushingsnail


Posts: 371
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #4
01-06-2022 12:44 PM

We may be able to get 'out' of Forest Hill every 7 minutes but that doesn't equate to a similarly frequent return journey.

You need to make a choice of either South Eastern train from London Bridge or Overground from another station. London Bridge service is every half hour, which is appalling for a well-used line. Overground is more frequent but not necessarily as convenient or quick after allowing for the interchange, eg if using the infrequent Hammersmith & City line to connect at Whitechapel.

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DaveO


Posts: 8
Joined: May 2022
Post: #5
01-06-2022 02:22 PM

Quote:
However as a daily commuter into Central London and back during rush hour the Canada water interchange is not adequate for the amount of people using it, Its a real crush going onto the escalator to the Jubilee Line Platforms and actually pretty scary.


A lot of people use the front of the train and go to the Jubilee line via the ticket hall. Go UP the escalators and turn left and straight back down again, you'll be on the platform before a lot of people. However, now that Elizabeth line is open and people are returning to work in the City, the front couple of carriages have been quite full even after Canada Water, as they are leaving the train at Whitechapel and Shoreditch HS from the front. So kind of just back to square one now.

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nottinghillbilly


Posts: 503
Joined: Dec 2010
Post: #6
01-06-2022 08:05 PM

Thank-You!
Its just not good enough for a busy commuter station (FH) in zone 3
I actually choose to disembark the Jubilee at London Bridge coming home from work..I now have to wait a good 20mins to get the 19.40 but as a shop-worker who has to stand all day I prefer to sit and wait at London bridge which is bright and airy in order to get a seat on a train rather than face the wait on the bleak grey southbound platform at Canada Water and the invariable scramble to get a seat.

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Honoak


Posts: 11
Joined: Sep 2019
Post: #7
01-06-2022 08:54 PM

I absolutely agree that it is not good enough. The attitude appears t be that you have London Overground and be grateful, little people of SE London for 2 trains/hr. I participated, with others, on a call with Ellie Reeves where she voiced her displeasure. I did also write to Department of Transport and they said, not really up to us. Unfortunately, I don't see quick changes as:
1) Southern are not greatly interested in running a local chuff-chuff from London Bridge to London Victoria. They would probably argue they have to maximise income and reduce costs in the post pandemic world. So I would wager they are more interested in their longer, more lucrative routes.
2) London Bridge to London Victoria could perhaps sit in London Overground/TfL, but
3) Tfl does not have the money to take on lines from Southern
4) Without getting too heavily into politics there are contentious debates as to the funding of TfL which are unresolved.
5) Possibility of strikes, further reduction of money for the rail companies

Of course the longer there are no LB t LV trains, the less demand....because no trains to carry them. Which I suspect is Southern's game plan.

The only slight positive I see is that the advent of the Elizabeth Line should take some traffic from the Canada Water interchange (though you still have to use the Overground of course!). I tried Overground to Whitechapel and Elizabeth to Paddington - about the same time as into London Bridge and the tube, but much easier (if you avoid the rush hour!). The same route gets you to Farringdon and Tottenham Court Rd - the stations are so large they serve the footprint of 2 tube stations (e.g. Elizabeth Farringdon station covers both Farringdon and Barbican.

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rbmartin


Posts: 866
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #8
01-06-2022 09:51 PM

As mentioned, the services are now busier up to Whitechapel since the Elizabeth line opened. But I still manage to get a seat on the Overground at Whitechapel coming back to FH.

It may improve once more at Canada Water once the Elizabeth line west and east sections along with Bond Street stations full open as more passengers change their travelling patterns which will take more strain off the Jubilee line.

Obviously passengers from here aren't going to go up to Whitechapel to use the Elizabeth line to Canary Wharf, but they will use it to go to Stratford, Bond Street, Ealing and Heathrow.

The Metro services pre-Covid didn't make money for Southern, they're more interested in the services that go to the South Coast which make them money

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samuelsen


Posts: 353
Joined: Feb 2016
Post: #9
01-06-2022 10:26 PM

Before the Overground their were never any weekend closures, since the Overground it has made the service unreliable. Southern are much better.

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rbmartin


Posts: 866
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #10
01-06-2022 10:33 PM

I remember when Southern or Connex would operate a service either going northbound or southbound to keep people moving and it saved on providing a replacement bus service, but I couldn't go back to only having Southern trains.

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nottinghillbilly


Posts: 503
Joined: Dec 2010
Post: #11
02-06-2022 09:50 PM

Before I moved here I had a colleague who lived in Sydenham and she used to get a train from Charing X home every night and sang the praises of the area due to the regular trains from Central London.
It would be a wonderful thing if we still had a direct service to Charing X

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Honoak


Posts: 11
Joined: Sep 2019
Post: #12
13-06-2022 07:10 PM

I see the London Bridge trains are 5 car (at least they were tonight from LB). So a further cut. I wish I had answers, but given that the present govt is headed by an ex London Mayor who seems to loathe the current London Mayor (probably heartily reciprocated) it is hard to see a flood of money coming London's way to boost transport anytime soon. That is very unwise I think, but that is where we are.

Well we then have the strikes coming up so its overground or nothing I guess (what happens with the Elizabeth Line?).

I think in South London there are now no customers, just collateral damage.

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nottinghillbilly


Posts: 503
Joined: Dec 2010
Post: #13
13-06-2022 08:12 PM

It feels as if this corner of south east london is being very hard done by in terms of public transport.
Bus cuts as well as train cuts.
It appears to me that TFL and other carriers are focussing on improving transport links to Stratford and other areas of East London at the detriment of SE.
Its almost as if there is an assumption that those who live in this neck of the woods dont have to commute ...

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samuelsen


Posts: 353
Joined: Feb 2016
Post: #14
13-06-2022 10:52 PM

I think you mean Southern Trains as South Eastern Trains do not serve the Sutton to London Bridge line, maybe you where thinking of Crofton Park??

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nottinghillbilly


Posts: 503
Joined: Dec 2010
Post: #15
14-06-2022 09:01 PM

apologies..I DID mean Southern..I travel from Forest Hill station.

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