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(ex) Mercury TV - Perry Vale
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robwinton


Posts: 335
Joined: Jun 2006
Post: #1
12-11-2007 07:46 PM

We discussed this shop some time ago and I cannot locate the thread (maybe never made it over to the new format).

Mercury TV close down after decades of trading on Perry Vale (near the station and opposite EJ Carpets). It is a double fronted property and therefore probably one of the best sites in FH, especially when Forest Hill Centra(a)l finally opens. Unfortunately it is on the unfashionable side of the tracks, although I am assured that a few decades ago this side was buzzing with tailors and other skilled shops.

I believe it is up for rent, so I wondered whether anyone had any ideas or contacts for this place BEFORE THE DEVELOPERS GET IT.

I believe that this side of the tracks is beyond the conservation area, and therefore it could, in theory, be converted to residential property as has happened on Honor Oak Road.

I think the size and location make it a perfect spot for something akin to the East Dulwich Deli, or Green & Blue (cafe & shop).

Anyone know what might be happening there or any suggestions for what would be suited to this side of the tracks? After all, it has its own parking and is closer to the Perry Vale Car Park!

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hilltopgeneral


Posts: 156
Joined: Mar 2004
Post: #2
12-11-2007 09:19 PM

There's about as much chance of that becoming the next East Dulwich Deli or Green & Blue as [insert own phrase, e.g. 'our town centre manager doing something visible to earn her salary']

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admin
Administrator

Posts: 393
Joined: Dec 2002
Post: #3
12-11-2007 09:35 PM

robwinton Wrote:
We discussed this shop some time ago and I cannot locate the thread (maybe never made it over to the new format).

Mental note to self - must get that search facility organised on the archive ...
http://www.se23.com/forum-archive/messages/9/1508.html

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robwinton


Posts: 335
Joined: Jun 2006
Post: #4
12-11-2007 10:22 PM

admin Wrote:
Mental note to self - must get that search facility organised on the archive ...
http://www.se23.com/forum-archive/messages/9/1508.html


thank you admin

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robwinton


Posts: 335
Joined: Jun 2006
Post: #5
12-11-2007 10:23 PM

hilltopgeneral Wrote:
There's about as much chance of that becoming the next East Dulwich Deli or Green & Blue as [insert own phrase, e.g. 'our town centre manager doing something visible to earn her salary']


questions of the level of involvement by the town centre manager aside, why do you feel quite so negative hilltop? Huh

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #6
13-11-2007 11:22 AM

Why the persistent fantasy that there is a market in FH for the sort of thing you see in ED? There isn't, otherwise they'd be here already.

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #7
13-11-2007 11:44 AM

Shops do change, baboonery. Demographics change, populations move, types of shop come and go. Under your argument, shopping areas would never change, improve or grow because 'if they were going to, they'd have done so already?'

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robwinton


Posts: 335
Joined: Jun 2006
Post: #8
13-11-2007 11:56 AM

Baboonery Wrote:
Why the persistent fantasy that there is a market in FH for the sort of thing you see in ED? There isn't, otherwise they'd be here already.


I disagree. See how long it took to get a simple coffee shop, and now see how busy it is and how many people here are praising it.

This site may not be wholly representative of FH, but I would assume (based on access to computer, internet, time to post, etc.) that it does represent those with a reasonabe disposable income.

The point here is to highlight to potential investors and business owners that there IS a market here despite appearances to the contrary. Once one or two new businesses have succesfully established themselves this will be self-evident and we can simply get back to moaning about trains or parking.

I am not saying we need the total conversion of FH and/or HOP to ED yuppie style emporia, but one or two would be nice.

Is the alternative to keep going as we are? I'd say closures are outnumbering openings by at least 2 to 1.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #9
13-11-2007 12:08 PM

nevermodern Wrote:
Shops do change, baboonery. Demographics change, populations move, types of shop come and go. Under your argument, shopping areas would never change, improve or grow because 'if they were going to, they'd have done so already?'


Indeed so. But the proliferation of high-end delis and the like in nearby areas and other similar areas of London in recent years suggests that they'd be here by now if there was a market. Whatever happened to Organic Republic? And that had passing trade, which the Mercury site wouldn't have.

There's too much pie in the sky on this forum about Forest Hill becoming some sort of middle-class utopia (a child-friendly one, of course). Green and Blue on Perry Vale? Just take a minute to think about how ridiculous that is.

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Mrjamon


Posts: 46
Joined: Jun 2007
Post: #10
13-11-2007 12:16 PM

ED was worse than Forest Hill today less than ten years ago and look at it now. FH can only go up rather than down. Of course theres are market for a high end deli. Would you go? yes. Hail the Lemon Grove

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #11
13-11-2007 12:38 PM

I'm sure before dartmouth arms arrived there were cries of 'there's no market for a gastropub - if there was a market for one, there'd be one here already'. It's not the way it works, baboonery. It takes a couple of forward thinking, imaginative businesses to take a risk and dive in with well placed products that people want, and the market grows - shops don't just reflect what consumers want, they create and change what people want, too. The demographics or FH are changing and money is coming in, and will continue to come in with the arrival of the ELX.

But to be honest, regardless of this, I fail to see the point of negative comments about forest hill that have no positive input. Perhaps you'll say you're just being 'realistic', but i don't buy it. It just drags the place, and people's spirits, down. And before you say it, I'm not waving a tambourine round and standing, Canute-like while the walls crumble around me, I'm just broadly content with FH as it is, but believe that with effort and demographic change, it can and will be a better place to live and work for everyone.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #12
13-11-2007 01:10 PM

But that's actually my point: change in this regard is incremental, and a jump to something like Green and Blue (particularly in such an unpromising site) at this stage is not really going anywhere. It's missing out about five stages of the ladder. If you owned G&B would you open there? FH Central is over a year away, I think, and the ELX nearly three. How do you propose to keep going in the meantime?

I want to see FH develop and become a better place to live, but you may as well ask John Lewis to open up in the empty Sainsbury's unit.

I don't want to invent hordes of homeless people sleeping in shop doorways like certain other posters seem to see, but I can't join in with the Pollyanna-ish flow here.

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #13
13-11-2007 01:15 PM

I come back to the Dartmouth Arms example. And there really is no reason why a decent deli couldn't thrive in FH.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #14
13-11-2007 01:42 PM

nevermodern Wrote:
I come back to the Dartmouth Arms example. And there really is no reason why a decent deli couldn't thrive in FH.


Perhaps, perhaps not. I'd favour the not, personally, but you never know. But not there, surely?

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Toffeejim


Posts: 84
Joined: Nov 2004
Post: #15
13-11-2007 03:04 PM

Baboonery Wrote:

nevermodern Wrote:
I come back to the Dartmouth Arms example. And there really is no reason why a decent deli couldn't thrive in FH.


Perhaps, perhaps not. I'd favour the not, personally, but you never know. But not there, surely?


There's plenty of passing trade on foot as well as scope for car owners to stop outside for the 5 or 10 minutes they'd need to buy a few delicacies. The free and immediately accessible parking angle represents an advantage over all of London Road and half of Dartmouth Road. I imagine shop rents would be substantially cheaper here too, so attractive for the small businessperson viz. the Polish Deli on Sunderland Road.

It does take a leap of imagination though. But trhat isn't without precedent. I think most people's perceptions of Dartmouth Road have changed substantiaaly since the Dartmouth Arms was gastro-ed.

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robwinton


Posts: 335
Joined: Jun 2006
Post: #16
13-11-2007 03:12 PM

Toffeejim Wrote:
There's plenty of passing trade on foot as well as scope for car owners to stop outside for the 5 or 10 minutes they'd need to buy a few delicacies. The free and immediately accessible parking angle represents an advantage over all of London Road and half of Dartmouth Road. I imagine shop rents would be substantially cheaper here too, so attractive for the small businessperson viz. the Polish Deli on Sunderland Road.


Exactly. It has parking, it is in an interesting, if not actually beautiful, Victorian building that is unlikely to be torn down by developers, it is right next to the station (even if some of you are more used to approaching from the other side) and there are to be lots of new properties built across the road. Not to mention proximity to other well known local businesses like Kafe La and Finches.

It may not be ideal for such a business, but it isn't beyond the realms of possibility. Anyway, I only left them there as suggestions using other local businesses as examples. Anyone have a better idea of what it might be? Poundland might seem a well received alternative?!

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #17
13-11-2007 04:15 PM

Toffeejim Wrote:
There's plenty of passing trade on foot as well as scope for car owners to stop outside for the 5 or 10 minutes they'd need to buy a few delicacies. The free and immediately accessible parking angle represents an advantage over all of London Road and half of Dartmouth Road. I imagine shop rents would be substantially cheaper here too, so attractive for the small businessperson viz. the Polish Deli on Sunderland Road.

It does take a leap of imagination though. But trhat isn't without precedent. I think most people's perceptions of Dartmouth Road have changed substantiaaly since the Dartmouth Arms was gastro-ed.



Car owners who will never know the place exists, because not much traffic passes it?

The transformation of the DA was slightly before I moved to Dartmouth Road, so I can't really comment on that. But it doesn't seem to have had much impact on the rest of the road. Boots is still awaiting the inevitable, the small shops are mostly the same as they were, apart from an interesting junk shop being replaced by an uninteresting junk mortgage outfit. And the short-lived Condom Shop. The internet cafe and the scooter shop closed down, the latter is now another lettings agent. Not much change there. I can't legislate for 'people's perceptions', but the DA (soulless, over-rated gastro-by-numbers nonsense that it is) still seems the exception rather than the rule.

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #18
13-11-2007 04:30 PM

The Hob, The Honor Oak, Yune, Lemon Grove, Bunka, Mayo Maker, Laurel's Flowers, Provender, Cafe La, Thai Orchard. As I said, I'm not sure what's gained by saying, "Forest Hill is rubbish."

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #19
13-11-2007 04:44 PM

nevermodern Wrote:
The Hob, The Honor Oak, Yune, Lemon Grove, Bunka, Mayo Maker, Laurel's Flowers, Provender, Cafe La, Thai Orchard. As I said, I'm not sure what's gained by saying, "Forest Hill is rubbish."


And I'm not sure what's gained by grossly misrepresenting my posts.

All the places you mention were there before I moved in, with the exception of Yune (which was called something else and run by the same people, IIRC, the Honor Oak, which is miles away, and the Lemon Grove).
The Hob: established business, recently refurbished. Good.
The Honor Oak: too far away to comment
Yune: existed in a slightly different guise, only once have I seen more than one table occupied, astonished it's still going. That's more times than I've seen more than one table occupied at Gingko, like.
Lemon Grove: we're declaring it a success after FOUR DAYS? (though I think it will be, and I hope it is)
Bunka, Mayo Maker: Never seen anyone in either of them, and I can see them from my window.
Laurel's Flowers: seems to fit in with the flow of the road to me.

I've never said that FH is rubbish. I've lived here 18 months and intend to stick around, perhaps even becoming an FTB here if I can scrape together the funds. I like the area. But East Dulwich it ain't. It might be one day. I'm not sure what's gained by suggesting that businesses we might like to set up in a particular location would succeed, just because if wishing made it so.

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #20
13-11-2007 04:50 PM

Well, people can wish and imagine what they like...it does no harm and at worst is kindof fun and harmless. At best it can inspire a bit. Shooting down hypotheticals, however dewy-eyed they are, with a hefty shot of "Bah FHumbug" is much more annoying that wondering whatifs.

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