SE23.com - The Official Forum for Forest Hill & Honor Oak, London SE23
Online since 2002   11,000+ members   72,000+ posts

Home | SE23 Topics | Businesses & Services | Wider Topics | Offered/Wanted/Lost/Found | About SE23.com | Advertising | Contact | |
 Armstrong & Co Solicitors



Post Reply  Post Topic 
Pages (3): « First [1] 2 3 Next > Last »
(ex) Mercury TV - Perry Vale
Author Message
robwinton


Posts: 335
Joined: Jun 2006
Post: #1
12-11-2007 06:46 PM

We discussed this shop some time ago and I cannot locate the thread (maybe never made it over to the new format).

Mercury TV close down after decades of trading on Perry Vale (near the station and opposite EJ Carpets). It is a double fronted property and therefore probably one of the best sites in FH, especially when Forest Hill Centra(a)l finally opens. Unfortunately it is on the unfashionable side of the tracks, although I am assured that a few decades ago this side was buzzing with tailors and other skilled shops.

I believe it is up for rent, so I wondered whether anyone had any ideas or contacts for this place BEFORE THE DEVELOPERS GET IT.

I believe that this side of the tracks is beyond the conservation area, and therefore it could, in theory, be converted to residential property as has happened on Honor Oak Road.

I think the size and location make it a perfect spot for something akin to the East Dulwich Deli, or Green & Blue (cafe & shop).

Anyone know what might be happening there or any suggestions for what would be suited to this side of the tracks? After all, it has its own parking and is closer to the Perry Vale Car Park!

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
hilltopgeneral


Posts: 156
Joined: Mar 2004
Post: #2
12-11-2007 08:19 PM

There's about as much chance of that becoming the next East Dulwich Deli or Green & Blue as [insert own phrase, e.g. 'our town centre manager doing something visible to earn her salary']

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
admin
Administrator

Posts: 424
Joined: Dec 2002
Post: #3
12-11-2007 08:35 PM

robwinton wrote:
We discussed this shop some time ago and I cannot locate the thread (maybe never made it over to the new format).

Mental note to self - must get that search facility organised on the archive ...
http://www.se23.com/forum-archive/messages/9/1508.html

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
robwinton


Posts: 335
Joined: Jun 2006
Post: #4
12-11-2007 09:22 PM

admin wrote:
Mental note to self - must get that search facility organised on the archive ...
http://www.se23.com/forum-archive/messages/9/1508.html


thank you admin

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
robwinton


Posts: 335
Joined: Jun 2006
Post: #5
12-11-2007 09:23 PM

hilltopgeneral wrote:
There's about as much chance of that becoming the next East Dulwich Deli or Green & Blue as [insert own phrase, e.g. 'our town centre manager doing something visible to earn her salary']


questions of the level of involvement by the town centre manager aside, why do you feel quite so negative hilltop? Huh

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #6
13-11-2007 10:22 AM

Why the persistent fantasy that there is a market in FH for the sort of thing you see in ED? There isn't, otherwise they'd be here already.

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #7
13-11-2007 10:44 AM

Shops do change, baboonery. Demographics change, populations move, types of shop come and go. Under your argument, shopping areas would never change, improve or grow because 'if they were going to, they'd have done so already?'

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
robwinton


Posts: 335
Joined: Jun 2006
Post: #8
13-11-2007 10:56 AM

Baboonery wrote:
Why the persistent fantasy that there is a market in FH for the sort of thing you see in ED? There isn't, otherwise they'd be here already.


I disagree. See how long it took to get a simple coffee shop, and now see how busy it is and how many people here are praising it.

This site may not be wholly representative of FH, but I would assume (based on access to computer, internet, time to post, etc.) that it does represent those with a reasonabe disposable income.

The point here is to highlight to potential investors and business owners that there IS a market here despite appearances to the contrary. Once one or two new businesses have succesfully established themselves this will be self-evident and we can simply get back to moaning about trains or parking.

I am not saying we need the total conversion of FH and/or HOP to ED yuppie style emporia, but one or two would be nice.

Is the alternative to keep going as we are? I'd say closures are outnumbering openings by at least 2 to 1.

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #9
13-11-2007 11:08 AM

nevermodern wrote:
Shops do change, baboonery. Demographics change, populations move, types of shop come and go. Under your argument, shopping areas would never change, improve or grow because 'if they were going to, they'd have done so already?'


Indeed so. But the proliferation of high-end delis and the like in nearby areas and other similar areas of London in recent years suggests that they'd be here by now if there was a market. Whatever happened to Organic Republic? And that had passing trade, which the Mercury site wouldn't have.

There's too much pie in the sky on this forum about Forest Hill becoming some sort of middle-class utopia (a child-friendly one, of course). Green and Blue on Perry Vale? Just take a minute to think about how ridiculous that is.

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Mrjamon


Posts: 46
Joined: Jun 2007
Post: #10
13-11-2007 11:16 AM

ED was worse than Forest Hill today less than ten years ago and look at it now. FH can only go up rather than down. Of course theres are market for a high end deli. Would you go? yes. Hail the Lemon Grove

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #11
13-11-2007 11:38 AM

I'm sure before dartmouth arms arrived there were cries of 'there's no market for a gastropub - if there was a market for one, there'd be one here already'. It's not the way it works, baboonery. It takes a couple of forward thinking, imaginative businesses to take a risk and dive in with well placed products that people want, and the market grows - shops don't just reflect what consumers want, they create and change what people want, too. The demographics or FH are changing and money is coming in, and will continue to come in with the arrival of the ELX.

But to be honest, regardless of this, I fail to see the point of negative comments about forest hill that have no positive input. Perhaps you'll say you're just being 'realistic', but i don't buy it. It just drags the place, and people's spirits, down. And before you say it, I'm not waving a tambourine round and standing, Canute-like while the walls crumble around me, I'm just broadly content with FH as it is, but believe that with effort and demographic change, it can and will be a better place to live and work for everyone.

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #12
13-11-2007 12:10 PM

But that's actually my point: change in this regard is incremental, and a jump to something like Green and Blue (particularly in such an unpromising site) at this stage is not really going anywhere. It's missing out about five stages of the ladder. If you owned G&B would you open there? FH Central is over a year away, I think, and the ELX nearly three. How do you propose to keep going in the meantime?

I want to see FH develop and become a better place to live, but you may as well ask John Lewis to open up in the empty Sainsbury's unit.

I don't want to invent hordes of homeless people sleeping in shop doorways like certain other posters seem to see, but I can't join in with the Pollyanna-ish flow here.

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #13
13-11-2007 12:15 PM

I come back to the Dartmouth Arms example. And there really is no reason why a decent deli couldn't thrive in FH.

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #14
13-11-2007 12:42 PM

nevermodern wrote:
I come back to the Dartmouth Arms example. And there really is no reason why a decent deli couldn't thrive in FH.


Perhaps, perhaps not. I'd favour the not, personally, but you never know. But not there, surely?

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Toffeejim


Posts: 84
Joined: Nov 2004
Post: #15
13-11-2007 02:04 PM

Baboonery wrote:

nevermodern wrote:
I come back to the Dartmouth Arms example. And there really is no reason why a decent deli couldn't thrive in FH.


Perhaps, perhaps not. I'd favour the not, personally, but you never know. But not there, surely?


There's plenty of passing trade on foot as well as scope for car owners to stop outside for the 5 or 10 minutes they'd need to buy a few delicacies. The free and immediately accessible parking angle represents an advantage over all of London Road and half of Dartmouth Road. I imagine shop rents would be substantially cheaper here too, so attractive for the small businessperson viz. the Polish Deli on Sunderland Road.

It does take a leap of imagination though. But trhat isn't without precedent. I think most people's perceptions of Dartmouth Road have changed substantiaaly since the Dartmouth Arms was gastro-ed.

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
robwinton


Posts: 335
Joined: Jun 2006
Post: #16
13-11-2007 02:12 PM

Toffeejim wrote:
There's plenty of passing trade on foot as well as scope for car owners to stop outside for the 5 or 10 minutes they'd need to buy a few delicacies. The free and immediately accessible parking angle represents an advantage over all of London Road and half of Dartmouth Road. I imagine shop rents would be substantially cheaper here too, so attractive for the small businessperson viz. the Polish Deli on Sunderland Road.


Exactly. It has parking, it is in an interesting, if not actually beautiful, Victorian building that is unlikely to be torn down by developers, it is right next to the station (even if some of you are more used to approaching from the other side) and there are to be lots of new properties built across the road. Not to mention proximity to other well known local businesses like Kafe La and Finches.

It may not be ideal for such a business, but it isn't beyond the realms of possibility. Anyway, I only left them there as suggestions using other local businesses as examples. Anyone have a better idea of what it might be? Poundland might seem a well received alternative?!

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #17
13-11-2007 03:15 PM

Toffeejim wrote:
There's plenty of passing trade on foot as well as scope for car owners to stop outside for the 5 or 10 minutes they'd need to buy a few delicacies. The free and immediately accessible parking angle represents an advantage over all of London Road and half of Dartmouth Road. I imagine shop rents would be substantially cheaper here too, so attractive for the small businessperson viz. the Polish Deli on Sunderland Road.

It does take a leap of imagination though. But trhat isn't without precedent. I think most people's perceptions of Dartmouth Road have changed substantiaaly since the Dartmouth Arms was gastro-ed.



Car owners who will never know the place exists, because not much traffic passes it?

The transformation of the DA was slightly before I moved to Dartmouth Road, so I can't really comment on that. But it doesn't seem to have had much impact on the rest of the road. Boots is still awaiting the inevitable, the small shops are mostly the same as they were, apart from an interesting junk shop being replaced by an uninteresting junk mortgage outfit. And the short-lived Condom Shop. The internet cafe and the scooter shop closed down, the latter is now another lettings agent. Not much change there. I can't legislate for 'people's perceptions', but the DA (soulless, over-rated gastro-by-numbers nonsense that it is) still seems the exception rather than the rule.

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #18
13-11-2007 03:30 PM

The Hob, The Honor Oak, Yune, Lemon Grove, Bunka, Mayo Maker, Laurel's Flowers, Provender, Cafe La, Thai Orchard. As I said, I'm not sure what's gained by saying, "Forest Hill is rubbish."

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #19
13-11-2007 03:44 PM

nevermodern wrote:
The Hob, The Honor Oak, Yune, Lemon Grove, Bunka, Mayo Maker, Laurel's Flowers, Provender, Cafe La, Thai Orchard. As I said, I'm not sure what's gained by saying, "Forest Hill is rubbish."


And I'm not sure what's gained by grossly misrepresenting my posts.

All the places you mention were there before I moved in, with the exception of Yune (which was called something else and run by the same people, IIRC, the Honor Oak, which is miles away, and the Lemon Grove).
The Hob: established business, recently refurbished. Good.
The Honor Oak: too far away to comment
Yune: existed in a slightly different guise, only once have I seen more than one table occupied, astonished it's still going. That's more times than I've seen more than one table occupied at Gingko, like.
Lemon Grove: we're declaring it a success after FOUR DAYS? (though I think it will be, and I hope it is)
Bunka, Mayo Maker: Never seen anyone in either of them, and I can see them from my window.
Laurel's Flowers: seems to fit in with the flow of the road to me.

I've never said that FH is rubbish. I've lived here 18 months and intend to stick around, perhaps even becoming an FTB here if I can scrape together the funds. I like the area. But East Dulwich it ain't. It might be one day. I'm not sure what's gained by suggesting that businesses we might like to set up in a particular location would succeed, just because if wishing made it so.

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #20
13-11-2007 03:50 PM

Well, people can wish and imagine what they like...it does no harm and at worst is kindof fun and harmless. At best it can inspire a bit. Shooting down hypotheticals, however dewy-eyed they are, with a hefty shot of "Bah FHumbug" is much more annoying that wondering whatifs.

Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Pages (3): « First [1] 2 3 Next > Last »

Friends of Blythe Hill Fields


Possibly Related Topics ...
Topic: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Perry Vale Ward - low water pressure? SEN 2 3,975 23-11-2018 05:02 PM
Last Post: BigED
  Perry Vale Assembly Wed 7th November 2018 7pm hillview 0 3,216 06-11-2018 11:50 AM
Last Post: hillview
  Proposed Conservation Area: Perry Vale ‘Christmas’ houses and further north blushingsnail 2 4,572 25-10-2018 05:13 PM
Last Post: StuartG
  66-room hotel planned for All Inn One site, Perry Vale admin 5 7,427 11-10-2018 08:39 PM
Last Post: Snazy
  Crash on crossing by Perry Vale Snazy 0 3,823 13-06-2018 10:22 AM
Last Post: Snazy
  Perry Vale, armed police stop last night Snazy 0 3,591 13-06-2018 10:19 AM
Last Post: Snazy
  Petition: Pedestrian Crossing on Perry Vale by Forest Hill station BigED 7 9,080 03-06-2018 11:41 AM
Last Post: michael
  Perry Vale Ward Assembly - 6 June 2018 michael 0 3,470 03-06-2018 09:02 AM
Last Post: michael
  Police community roadwatch session on Perry Vale hillview 0 3,224 01-06-2017 10:36 AM
Last Post: hillview
  Perry Vale One Way System michael 3 5,941 30-11-2016 10:12 AM
Last Post: wynell
  Perry vale hole Erekose 20 18,578 30-11-2016 05:46 AM
Last Post: Erekose
  Zebra crossing on Perry Vale! blushingsnail 3 5,978 23-11-2016 10:15 AM
Last Post: wynell
  Do we need a pedestrian crossing on Perry Vale at the rear of Forest Hill station? hertburs 113 97,689 16-11-2016 07:51 AM
Last Post: hertburs
  New planters on Perry Vale Foxtrot 5 7,823 04-07-2016 10:52 AM
Last Post: Mr_Numbers
  Ramp between Perry Vale and Dartmouth Rd Fsteele 14 13,555 20-05-2016 02:49 PM
Last Post: Perryman
  Parking Tickets being issued in Perry Vale car park when paying via RingGo rshdunlop 23 21,786 08-04-2016 12:35 PM
Last Post: Londondrz
  History of houses in Perry Vale triangle? Jane2 3 6,686 24-02-2016 08:53 PM
Last Post: Perryman
  Abuse at forest hill station Perry vale side Laurab82 20 21,217 13-11-2015 02:35 PM
Last Post: Snazy
  Perry Vale Local Assembly Tues 6th October, 7.00 Tim Lund 0 3,926 04-10-2015 09:37 PM
Last Post: Tim Lund
  Another accident on Perry Vale appetite4 35 31,787 25-09-2015 11:15 AM
Last Post: Perryman