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Forest Hill underpass
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michael


Posts: 3,221
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #1
13-12-2008 05:40 PM

Perry Como Wrote:
Does anyone know if the S106 money stretches to improving the environment in the underpass...surely this should be a priority now? Or was it all spent on the dog's dinner of a highway scheme that lasted the whole of last summer?


Yes. Money is available and work should start some time in the new year. I have been checking with Lewisham that this work will not coincide with the closure of Perry Vale exit from the station, as that would have caused serious problems. The improvements to the underpass are unlikely to make a huge difference, but some improvements are better than none at all.

btw Perry Como, very clever username and welcome to the forum.

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councillorsusanwise


Posts: 76
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #2
13-12-2008 07:28 PM

The S106 works to the underpass will be underway, and they are time limited in their implementation, and not connected to the progress of the Forest Hill Central development, or to the platform works at the station. I think the highway scheme has made a positive difference in many ways, at least you can walk along the pavement towards the carpark without losing an eye from the overhanging vegetation. This I managed to get cut back before, and am working on the railway to do so again.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #3
15-12-2008 03:30 AM

You can see that the roots of the buddleia have lifted rows of bricks - the wall is being ripped apart and a pedestrian is eventually going to get a brick on his head. 'Good' say half the forum dwellers.

Well I also think this is quite a historically interesting wall. 'Destroy it now' say the other half.
Bear with me - but I think it could be far more interesting than that much loved fraudulent wall on Davids Rd with its engravings and plaques.

A significant wall must have been built here when the railway came - one that could keep 6' to 12' of earth held back from the existing Perry Vale.
All the many visible repairs and varied structures like the 'columns' are consistent with an old wall that has been repeatedly modified over time.

So I recklessly suggest that some of today's wall is the original wall built in 1839. And I also boldly suggest that in that case, it may be one of the oldest existing brick structures in central Forest Hill if not SE23 (cottages aside).

It should be maintained and positively celebrated, and not hidden behind billboards of bald TV personalities.

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Perry Como


Posts: 14
Joined: Aug 2008
Post: #4
16-12-2008 10:37 PM

Michael, thanks for the warm welcome. are you aware of any drawings or plans for the subway works? I think someone told me that ramp access was to be introduced on the Perry Vale side...although lord know's what you do when you get to the London Road side of the subway (or did I dream this?)

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thenutfield


Posts: 235
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #5
17-12-2008 12:19 AM

you dreamed it Perry. there was some chat on an earlier thread about ramps, but i think it was just wishful thinking (imagine a ramp on the London Road end - you would need crampons!)

And Perryman, I am with you. I often admire that bit of wall. and as for baldie celebs - who do you like least - Harry Hill or Grant Mitchell off eastenders??

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #6
17-12-2008 03:15 AM

That is a hard question, Harry Hill or Grant Mitchell?
There is only one way to settle this - FIGHT!!!

Seriously I only mention them as they seem to have been staring down at us for ages. But these billboards generate a significant income for the wall owners. The money to keep the wall in good repair has been earned many times over.

Good to see no-one has challenged my qualified oldest brick structure in SE23 claim. I doubt there are any records for walls, so I guess I was fairly safe.

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #7
17-12-2008 02:13 PM

Wasn't that fraudulent wall part of the canal structure that predated the railway, though?

Just being mischievous Smile

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #8
18-12-2008 04:36 AM

re a London Rd side ramp.
Well the Victorians had one and it was a gentle slope.
I guess the engineers were a lot smarter back then.

re the fraudulent canal wall.
Of course the green tablets of stone do not claim this wall is original. It says this brick wall is on the site of the first canal wall.

Technically, the first 'canal' brick wall indeed was built here .... by the rail company as they filled the canal in (!!!) - leaving just a narrow strip along side Davids Rd and around.
There is no documentation to suggest the real working canal, the Croydon canal, was width restricted along here and so its eastern side clay wall (banks) would have been further east.

As the Davids Rd area was developed later than Perry Vale, my guess is that the PV wall would have been built first by the rail company.

Either way, I think that some of that PV wall is original, and it should not be allowed to disintegrate under the worst management for 170 years.

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councillorsusanwise


Posts: 76
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #9
18-12-2008 10:55 AM

I think I can answer some of the questions here.

1- Over the years, I have been regularly nagging the the railway management to remove the buddliea from the railway wall, which they finally get round to eventually. Despite me pointing it out to them, they do not regularly check and remove it. Thankfully, the widening of the pavement on the Perry Vale side will enable residents to walk along without the chance of losing an eye from the overhanging vegetation.

2-Many years ago, I chaired a panel judging the competition for the art work on the wall, and the canal depictation was considered the best, and has always been well received by residents.

3-Lewisham is still chasing up staff at Network Rail to find out when the S106 works to the underpass will commence-and we won't give up-and the works to the stairs at Platform 2 will be complete by the end of January 2009.

Best Wishes for a peaceful fective break.

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #10
18-12-2008 03:09 PM

Fective is a good word. A little Father Jack, but good.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #11
18-12-2008 05:20 PM

1. Thank you, councillorsusanwise for chasing them up. However I think you are setting a dangerous precedent by widening pavements to compensate for over hanging vegetation. If it really is that encroaching and dangerous, then surely an order can be put on them?

2. I think the fraud wall with the railings and associated canal themed elements looks well maintained and is a very attractive feature. A canal theme is more than appropriate here, and indeed the engraving is splendid. (But including a brick canal bridge (Sydenham's?) in the engraving is confusing.)

My point is if there is a wall budget, why cant money be spent on the PV wall too - repair the damage caused by neglect, re point and clean it - all promised as part of the Forest Hill Central proposals in any case?

This too would be well received by the residents.Smile

seasonal greetings......

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thenutfield


Posts: 235
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #12
19-12-2008 12:13 AM

perryman Wrote:
re a London Rd side ramp.
Well the Victorians had one and it was a gentle slope.
I guess the engineers were a lot smarter back then.


i'm no engineer, but if the starting point at the top, and the finishing point at the bottom, are the same then wouldn't a slope need to be very steep to do the same job as steps?

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councillorsusanwise


Posts: 76
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #13
19-12-2008 11:54 AM

Thanks Roz for the compliment, but fective was only a typo, I'm afraid.
Perryman, I think you may have misunderstood me;the pavement wasn't widened for pedestrians to avoid the hanging vegetation, it is just a happy coincidence of the overall much improved street plan of that area. Also, the art work on the wall was resourced as an art work, not a wall improvement.

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Happysnapper


Posts: 93
Joined: Aug 2007
Post: #14
19-12-2008 01:26 PM

I agree that the wall panel is great. I love finding little interesting bits and pieces when I walk around Smile

Yes, the wide pavement is better but I have still got a branch in the eye a few times when walking along Perry Vale, either when I am not looking where I'm going (therefore partly my fault) or when it's dark and I can't see the dangling horror clearly. It has been cut back slighltly not but it would be great if they would sort it out properly because it's only going to keep happening. Honestly with things like this (and the rubbish 'noticeboard' by the station which is never used and has weeds all round the bottom) I feel like doing it myself just to get it done!

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michael


Posts: 3,221
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #15
23-11-2010 11:32 PM
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FHSoc


Posts: 134
Joined: Nov 2009
Post: #16
04-12-2010 04:34 PM

The lights were finally reconnected on Thursday, 2 December in time for the PopUP.


We will continue to chase the other improvements to the Underpass.

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #17
04-12-2010 05:55 PM

When I see the title of this thread, I always think someone is reviving the old idea of putting the South Circular underground under FH. My hopes are dashed when I see it's actually all about the subway.

Why don't we follow established British usage, which I think restricts the use of the American import 'underpass' to a road which passes under another and uses 'subway' to refer to a short foot tunnel?

It's as bad as 'power outages' for the good old English 'cuts'!

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FHSoc


Posts: 134
Joined: Nov 2009
Post: #18
04-12-2010 07:50 PM

When I spoke to Jim Dowd last night, he was still hoping that we might one day bury (or at least divert) the South Circular so that we could pedestrianise the centre of Forest Hill.

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