'Send them to the squirrels' doesn't have quite the same dramatic effect .

Damn. Now I've posted again!

You clearly haven't encountered the squirrels in my street then, Nevermodern!

But seriously, folks?

I haven?t found using this forum to be the constructive experience I was hoping for. Rightly or wrongly, I was getting hacked off by the Big Issue sellers situation and felt it was escalating. My first thought was to contact Big Issue HQ, in the hope that things could be sorted out for the benefit of all, with the vendors treated fairly and sympathetically. But, as a long-term supporter of the magazine, I felt uneasy even about this.

This is why I visited the forum ? to find out how other FH people felt and to get different perspectives and additional facts, maybe even feedback from someone who had already contacted the Big Issue.

I didn?t want to cause offence and I feel I made an effort to be fair (seemingly I failed). I tried to check that any criticisms I made were based on the Big Issue Vendors? Code Of Conduct. To make it clear that, in general, I was pro-Big Issue and pro-vendors. And that it was purely about behaviour not anything personal.

Along with other posters, I wasn?t saying the sellers should be removed (or ?sent to the wolves?), just that they should be asked to tone down their approach to comply with Big Issue rules.

And yet, it seemed that anybody expressing the slightest concern or misgivings was often met with OTT, scatter-gun criticism. Dismissive, flippant, sarcastic comments. Unfounded accusations of hatred, bigotry and obsession. Comments that seemed (wilfully?) to misunderstand or ignore points being made, and ?responses? from people who didn?t appear to have read the original post properly if at all. Refusal to consider a ?middle ground? view with compromise on both sides, or arguments which lacked logic. (Granted, I felt some comments I read against the vendors were overly harsh and deserved a strong reply, but many responses seemed disproportionate.)

I wasn?t looking for my own opinions to be vindicated, just for constructive, well-considered feedback. Suggestions for the best possible action for all concerned.

Disagree with me by all means, that's what a forum is for. Prove I'm wrong by way of a calm and reasoned argument and I'll admit I am! I'll even apologise if it?s appropriate. But don't just lay into users. Attempts at smarter-than-thou acid wit are not the way to win people over to your point of view. If you?re convinced your opinions are the right ones, express them in a way that does them justice. (Thanks, by the way, to everyone who did make helpful comments. Much appreciated.)

OK, nevermodern, bigbadwolf and friends, you win. I?ll exit the board pursued by the baying squirrels of (self-?)righteousness, clutching my pitchfork and flaming torch (or, failing that, Shannons hoe and BBQ flare). I may return to discuss vital issues, like which local gastropub does the best pommes dauphinoises. But probably not.

Taffhamster
I agree with your comments. It seems any criticisim of these peoples behaviour means we must be racists. Anyway probably best this matter is dropped from the forum as too divisive.

Taffhamster. You included me in a group who you feel have chased you out of this forum, please let me set the record straight. Post 95 wasn't related to an on going discussion between you, Nevermodern or anybody else for that matter. My post was aimed at everyone who persistently comments about the removal, status and legality of the Big issue vendors outside Sainsbury's who believes that the Big issue head office is going to make some drastic and sweeping changes to the situation. The fact is EVERYONE, is that they probably don't care! The B.I office I imagine is most probably inundated with petitions from many of the more well off villages that grab more headlines and have more wealth, legal and political clout than Forest hill has so we are put to the bottom of the pile and will remains so for the fore seeable future. My main point to all those who have been hammering out this thread for the past 4 months is that if you want to live in the biggest city in Europe then you're going to have to put up with some of the less prettier aspects of life here. If you want to drive into work your going to have to deal with the traffic, if you have to go out late at night you have to look out for muggers and other human threats and if you want to live in a city of nearly 8 million then your going to have to accept that there are those poorer than you who have to resort to less dignified means of putting food in their mouths, and you may sometimes brush shoulders. I hope I've made my point in an un-patronizing tone, so Taffmaster if your reading this come back to the fold but along with everything else cool on this forum your going to have to put up with some flack as well. See you soon.

Just for the record, I flounced off in a huff before Taffhamster

In reply to TH:

None of my points have lacked reasonably argument, with the exception of my final squirrel-related reply to the lack of wolves in FH! Four months discussing a woman with a magazine is, in my opinion, a little obssessive. And saying the argument is obsessive isn't 'laying into users'. Your reply personalising the issue and directing your comments at me...was. My previous posts were about accepting life in the metropolis and distinguishing between irritation and harrassment: none of which relied on 'smarter-than-thou acid wit' and were a reply to a gazillion posts which failed to accept the reality of either.

I resent the idea, Taffhamster, that you've somehow been bullied into retreat, when those who have criticised - often with some vehemence - the BI seller *far* outnumber those in this post than those who defend her.

Dont leave TH, i for one enjoyed your contribution (didnt agree with all of it). You give as good as you get, but I dont think you should look to a forum like this to try to reach any kind of consensus or agreement - basically it is a chance for people to spout opinions, not listen to them.
Some of the contributers can be very harsh - way too rude and unpleasant for my liking - but dont take it personally (they seem to have a go at everyone, about anything), they are vocal, but they are a minority. My style is the 'sarcastic and not very funny' comment, probably just as annoying!
And if you thought this thread was tough, take a look at the one about kids in pubs!

T

This thread gets funnier with every post.

Try not to take it personally Taff, you've made some fair comments and you're entitled to an opinion.

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When I went into Sainsbury's on Saturday evening two police officers were talking to the Big Issue seller. When I came out a few minutes later she had gone. Presumably they had moved her on.

good, I have mentioned this to Big Issue and also the Manager of Sainsbury's - she is far too pushy!

Here we go again!

what do you mean "Here we go again!" that's not very inelegant - or mature. We have nothing against Big Issue sellers, they are trying to earn a decent living - and we respect that.
We just don't like to be harassed

Sorry "inelegant" should of been
"intelligent"

Those involved in the pub quiz will recall that she came into the Hob (presumably when Sainsbury's had closed), not just once, but twice and tried to sell BI table to table. Definitely a bit much!

Why has BD never been harassed in Forest Hill? Does some of the population have H tattooed on their forehead? Now I've been burgled, had an attempt to nick my car, and various other stuff so I am not totally immune to criminal action. But vulnerable? no.

(A serious question)

Yesterday morning I think I caused amusement by saying The Big Issue is Why you are here.
If she approached me in a pub she would certainly get abused.
I agree BD in the scheme of things not the most important problem in FH but I agree with Boris zero tolerance to small crime.
By the way BD West Brom were very lucky.

I walked past the Capitol the other night, and the two BI sellers were sitting on the outward-facing sofa, seemingly having a laugh with the staff. Not particularly interesting, but anyway.

the outward facing sofa? How fascinating.