Look, just don't buy the Big Issue from her, then you can be rest assured that you're not contributing to her 'lavish lifestyle'.

But really, given that I've never actually seen anyone buy a Big Issue from her, i find it hard to believe she's living it large.

Anyway, even if she is, what a miserable way to make a million!

If anyones got concerns about the probity of the BI sellers, or even if they are really 'destitute' and deserving of a sellers' licence, then they should contact the BI and make the points directly.
I am not sure how one 'qualifies' to be a BI seller but I'm sure the staff there will be able to look into whether they are appropriate and deserving enough to have such a golden opportunity handed to them. Clearly anyone venturing near a BMW or a car wash is up to no good and involved in a drugs or a people trafficking racket and must be investigated thoroughly for potential oligarchy. Also they still shop at Bell Green Sainsburys so someone should be advising them that people in their position should be receiving weekly home delivery from Ocado or Selfridges not queueing up for standard fare with the proletariat.

After they've done that they should wait outside the local dole office, and follow the people who sign on each week to see how they really live their lives and whether or not they have the temerity to own a TV, or a fridge, or even buy their clothes from a shop that isn't run by a charity. Then come back and post here and tell us who they are so that we can discuss them at great length.

The next day if they're feeling energetic they can look into the detail of many MP's expenses and financial accounting details of the top 100 rich list to see how much tax these people don't pay.

I of course am also making no comment, just passing on some information....

Bit confused by your reply Roz, you dont like people vandalizing cars but you are happy for people to (potentially) defraud us. Please explain how someone can sell the big issue (which is done by the homeless) but can afford a car (BMW) or not. Hell, if I was on the bones of my a*** I wouldnt have a car I would be trying to put a house over my head (and I bloody well wouldnt be paying ?5 to have it washed at Sainsbury's!!!).

BTW, I was the one who saw the older of the two ladies and the friendly gent who takes/keeps/secures their money and I will be contacting the BI.

She also likes Pizza Hut pizzas.

Now I know there is something up. I had one the other day and had to remortgage the house to buy it

[align=justify]My point is that everyone seems to be picking on these people and making assumptions and constructing scenarios based on their ethnicity and expected behaviours, and also seemingly so determined to demonstrate wrongdoing in some capacity, even though there are some more ' innocent' looking people out there ripping us all off more brazenly. Everyone previously assumed that she was being fleeced by a gangmaster who transpired to be a member of her family. The BI confirmed that this was all legit.

I feel the same about the recently publicised Lee Jasper matter. He may have overstepped the line, but I found a disproportionate amount of detailed attention and focus given to this issue when millions are squandered by utility companies,and other public bodies.

Just because someone gets out of a BMW doesn't mean there's anything amiss . No, I don't sanction fraud, however if they are legitimate BI sellers and the BI don't have any concerns then is it anyones business how they spend their money?

If I am wrong, I will of course do the decent thing.....

Hi Roz, I have contacted the BI and they are going to look into it. My concern is that the younger lady is being taken advantage of or that they are not genuine (however you judge homelessness) homeless.

What ever the situation I hope that the very nice lady at the BI can sort it out. She is also going to check out our ramblings on the matter on this forum.

Thanks for checking out. It was good to enter Sainsbury today without being pestered.

I don't walk past Sainsbury's to and from work but when I have to nip into sainsbury's They never bother me at all. They just sit there and mutter big issue under their breath so I don't know what you're all on about. The younger one is called Laura and she's about 25/26 and she's quite sweet to chat to when I give the change from my shopping or give her a bite to eat and will keep doing so.

This is my experience of the situation. I?ve always bought the Big Issue when I can, so I started getting it from these people when they moved on to the Sainsbury?s ?pitch?. Which of them I buy it from (the older or younger woman) depends on who I see first, but I've often given the other one a quid or so if I've seen her later in the week.

Hardly saintly levels of generosity, but I can't help feeling it's got me labelled as a soft touch. Every time I walk past, I get hassled for money, even when I?ve already bought a mag. And if I?m walking on the opposite side of the road, they?ll yell and wave the mags to beckon me over. As I understand it, the Big Issue is about ?working not begging?, but I feel the begging has just got progressively more blatant.

Recently, I bought a mag from the younger one on my way into the supermarket and, when I came out, she asked would I go back in and get some shopping for her (using my money). I did so (she'd only asked for something cheap) but now they just ask me straight out for money. The man was there once and, when he saw me say hello to the women, he started hassling me (not threateningly, but it was full-on). The other night, it came to a bit of a head ? I came out of Sainsbury?s carrying a mag I?d bought from the older woman just before going in, only to have the younger one walk up to me and start asking for cash.

No ?Hello?, just ?Give me money?? I decided enough was enough and said no, not being nasty but explaining I?d only just bought a mag. She kept saying, ?Just a pound?? I think what riled me was the seeming cynicism. A token effort at looking tragic, then a big, knowing grin because she took it for granted that I would put hand in my pocket. Again, I said that I didn't mind buying the mag but that I couldn't ? and wouldn't ? give them money every time I walked past them. She kept on at me, then the older woman started kicking off, screaming and shouting (at her, I think, not me), so I just walked off.

Regular vendors I?ve known in the past (like David, the guy on the trains with his dog mentioned elsewhere) have been utterly charming, regardless of whether or not you even buy a mag.

I try my best to give people the benefit of the doubt, and to give them the money if they need it, even if the way they ask for it rubs me up the wrong way. But I honestly feel the more money I give to these people in Forest Hill, the more hassle I?ll get, so I?m nipping it in the bud now. I?ll probably keep buying the mag from whoever approaches me first, but only for the cover price and with no handouts besides.

I had a call from the BI and they are looking into this. The very nice lady has read our posts and taken some of my observations on board. It is my understanding that they are only aware of the older lady having a pitch at Sainsbury's. They are, as I said, loking into this and they will post up about their findings in due course.

nice no one there today. I appreciate that this is a very divisive issue in the Forum . Most people feel strongly one way or the other.
I still think they are begging and really annoys me. If there is a genuine charity collector also there I make a point of giving them money in view of the beggar

I think it boils down to their behaviour at a given time. Now and again (usually later in the day), the younger woman WILL just be sitting against the railings, quietly offering mags ? hardly objectionable and, at times, she can be quite sweet and friendly. But at other times, the begging aspect is more in-your-face. I've experienced both, but feel the full-on begging is getting more frequent.

Also, assuming the pitch is completely legitimate, the Big Issue still isn't meant to be about begging ? it's very specific on that point. The "working, not begging" slogan is presumably aimed at protecting the vendor's dignity, and rightly so. And if standing in the cold and rain, presumably getting abuse slung at you by the unenlightened isn't hard work, I don't know what is. I'm not even suggesting that they should stick to the letter of it ? if extra cash above the cover price of the mag is volunteered, then why shouldn't they take it? But they're not meant to approach people and ask for money, which is something these people have done to me on numerous occasions.

These high-pressure begging tactics do nobody any favours. The more passers-by get hassled, the sooner compassion fatigue kicks in, and this doesn't just harm that particular vendor, but vendors in general. (And, in this case, it could reinforce prejudices against immigrants).

I for one have never shouted abuse at her , indeed never talk to her , just give her stern looks.
You mention Big Issue working not begging. Is this person legally allowed to work in UK. I have no idea of the answer but for instance if she comes from Bulgaria or Romania the answer would be no.
Who defines a legal spot for these workers / beggars. Surely pavement belongs to The Council. Do I need to complain to them or Sainsbury.
Surely Sainsbury who sell reading matter and pay rates etc should not welcome competition which does not pay any of these.

Just to clarify, Brian, my post about "hurling abuse" wasn't directed at yourself or at anyone in particular ? it was merely an observation that hostility from members of the public is one of the factors (along with the elements, etc) that vendors have to deal with. (ie, selling the Issue isn't a soft or lazy option, it is hard and often unforgiving work.)

I don't know enough about immigration / working laws to be able to comment on whether or not these people are permitted by law to sell the mag ? I assume (perhaps wrongly) that the Big Issue has a policy on this, based on legal advice and that, if vendors are provided with magazines, it's because they're legally allowed to sell them. If I see a badged vendor, I just assume (again, perhaps wrongly) that they're in need and a legitimate seller, so I try to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I guess the council would be your best bet for lodging a complaint. Sainsbury's must be well aware of them hassling customers and, presumably, would have taken action before now were they able to. (I doubt beggars would put people off doing a big shop there, but they may well have an effect on 'passing trade' ? people who might have dropped in on a whim if they hadn't crossed the road or strode on, heads down, to avoid being hassled!) However, I doubt Sainsbury's would move them along purely on the grounds of "competition" ? I can't imagine anyone foregoing their copy of Maxim or Grazia (or whatever) because they bought a Big Issue instead. It does carry a lot of good features, but I doubt the content is most people's primary motivation for buying it. Plus, it might be bad PR for the supermarket if they forbade ALL vendors to work pitches outside their stores.

Otherwise, call neighbourhood policing. (Sorry, don't have the number).

They would need a street trading licence to sell magazines in the street. However, I suspect that most people would normally feel sorry for them and ignore this fact. But I do find it annoying when they make it difficult to get into Sainsbury's.

The Big issue is clearly a good money-raising mechanism for the homeless but there are less arbitrary, and probably more efficient, ways to give. I began a monthly standing order to a homeless charity a couple of years ago. I commend it to others: it means it's easy to give a fairly reasonable sum on a properly regular basis. It also offers the benefit of being able to walk past Big Issue sellers without undergoing a guilt trip (well not to bad a one anyway......)

The more verbally aggressive younger one there this afternoon. Rather than stand by the railing she was right up to entrance. Intimidating or what

Aggressive in the sense of full-on "aggressive" begging, definitely. I will be fair and say I've never felt intimidated (in terms of feeling threatened) by any of them, not even the man, it's more the relentlessness of the approach, really.

Yesterday, as I was going into the shop, she just looked at me and said, "Money?" I stopped and explained calmly and firmly (yet again) that I didn't mind buying the mag, but that I didn't like being asked for handouts every time she saw me and that I couldn't ? and wouldn't ? give her cash whenever I passed by. She obviously didn't like this, and said sulkily that she'd see me on Monday (new mag day). In an effort to be nice, I promised I'd buy a mag, and she interrupted me, sighing and then snapping, "OK, Monday", the message clearly being that if I wasn't giving her any cash, the conversation was over.

As you say, she was there again this afternoon, right at the entrance and (again to be fair) didn't push her luck by asking me. (I said a quick hello on the way in and on the way out because I really don't like blanking people.) I just hope this means she has got the message now.

I appreciate that I'm more fortunate than these people, and I'm not expecting eternal gratitude for chucking them a few quid now and again. But when I'm treated rudely or have my efforts to do the right thing thrown back in my face, it puts me off wanting to help.

Hello Taffhamster
Agree with your comments. The fact she is asking for money seems to imply she is begging.