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Honor Oak Road lorry ban petition - pls sign
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mamm


Posts: 3
Joined: Jul 2016
Post: #1
09-07-2016 08:37 PM

1,200 children go to primary school on, or within 150 metres of, Honor Oak Road. This residential road is used as a cut through from the South Circular by large, highly polluting lorries. The pavements are very narrow and the levels of nitrogen dioxide (NO2) pollution breach EU regulations. Children and the elderly are particularly vulnerable to pollution. To sign a petition asking Lewisham's deputy mayor to ban lorries from Honor Oak Road in order to increase road safety and reduce pollution visit:

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/p/lorryban

We've been told we have a good chance of success with enough signatures - thank you.

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BillieJameson


Posts: 48
Joined: Jan 2014
Post: #2
09-07-2016 08:46 PM

Why Lewisham's Deputy Mayor? Shouldn't it either be the relevant Deputy to the Mayor of London or the Mayor of Lewisham? BJ

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mamm


Posts: 3
Joined: Jul 2016
Post: #3
09-07-2016 09:01 PM

He has special responsibility for transport and planning and has met with us several times about the issue. He also has the power to implement the ban

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davidl


Posts: 180
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #4
10-07-2016 11:03 AM

I would be interested in more information on this. What's your aim beyond making one road quieter and more pleasant. Won't the effect be to make other places proportionately worse?

If you have lorries banned from Honor Oak Road (I am guessing you think some width restrictions would do the trick) how are the buses going to work?

If your petition is successful, where do you think the traffic will go? I am guessing Devonshire Road and Brockley Rise would probably become busier.

I am entirely in favour of reducing the amount of road traffic, and heavily-polluting vehicles, but this should be co-ordinated across London and not hyperlocal - otherwise you're just pushing the problem on to someone else.

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BillieJameson


Posts: 48
Joined: Jan 2014
Post: #5
10-07-2016 01:14 PM

Thanks for the clarification mamm. But I agree that this can't be piecemeal. Devonshire Road is already like a slalem going down to Honor Oak. You're dependent on gaps in parking and people giving way for each other to get along. And the rail replacement buses - often double deckers - go along Honor Oak Road. BJ

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #6
10-07-2016 01:25 PM

I signed - the road/pavement is far too narrow for some vehicles. My coat was clipped on this road, breaking my phone - the traffic really is that close.

However all the main roads in SE23 exceed the NO2 limit.
http://www.londonair.org.uk/london/asp/annualmaps.asp
Brockley Rise exceeds the limit by quite a distance - Dalmain primary school gets it far worse than Fairlawn.
There should be a separate wider control to deal with this issue.

And it is important - after all it is estimated 10,000 die in london every year due to traffic pollution - imagine the hysteria if ISIS regularly picked off that number of Londoners. We wouldn't leave our homes.

I work that out as 38 people in SE23 dying every year because of NO2/particulates from traffic.
That is a pub full of people, and remember - you don't get to choose which pub.

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Shiro


Posts: 33
Joined: Jan 2015
Post: #7
10-07-2016 02:31 PM

More than happy to sign but worried that this could have a knock on by forcing lorries down to Honor Oak Park. Seen a few lorries have nightmares trying to turn into Brockley Rise and Stondon Park.

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mamm


Posts: 3
Joined: Jul 2016
Post: #8
11-07-2016 03:32 PM

The restriction is likely to be done by weight (rather than width, so that buses can still get through). This may be similar to the London Lorry Control scheme that restricts where HGVs over 18 tonnes can drive at night (and some hours of the weekend) in order not to disturb residents (this is the case on Wood Vale). Obviously the restrictions in this case would cover certain daylight hours. When we have discussed this with the council they have been very aware that they will need to take into account residents' needs for these kind of large lorries to reach them to deliver large items (building equipment, very large furniture etc). For this reason the scheme may be restricted to hours where children will be arriving and leaving school, for example.

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Devonish Forester


Posts: 62
Joined: Nov 2015
Post: #9
12-07-2016 11:39 AM

Quote:
I would be interested in more information on this. What's your aim beyond making one road quieter and more pleasant. Won't the effect be to make other places proportionately worse?


I have asked the Forest Hill Councillors and the Mayor of Lewisham to support a review of the traffic flow through Forest Hill as a whole, but it seems clear they support the status quo.

It is very difficult to find out how decisions like this are made and the reasons for previous decisions. For example, the No Entry to Manor Mount from Honor Oak Road - there is no information available from the Council. NOTHING AT ALL! No survey data, no impact assessment studies, no minutes of the meetings where the decision was taken. The same is true of all the No Through Roads, One Ways, and partial closures between Forest Hill and Honor Oak Park on the East side of the railway. You might think there would be records of surveys (technical surveys and resident surveys) but there is - so I am told - nothing available.

The system resembles freemasonry more than democratic accountability.

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #10
12-07-2016 01:29 PM

Your really don't like the no entry on Manor Mount do you. Laugh

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,351
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #11
13-07-2016 04:40 PM

Someone very important must live in Manor Mount!

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #12
18-07-2016 12:19 PM

There are very important people on Manor Mount, the people who live there and have to put up with idiots driving the wrong way at stupid speeds.

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bilgewater


Posts: 4
Joined: Dec 2010
Post: #13
20-07-2016 05:21 PM

So would anyone care to explain on that NOx map how the railway appears to score more highly than the roads between Forest Hill & Honor Oak Park stations.

Where does one think these lorries will go once they can't go down Honor Oak Road?

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #14
21-07-2016 10:23 PM

Quote:
So would anyone care to explain on that NOx map how the railway appears to score more highly than the roads between Forest Hill & Honor Oak Park stations.


The site says the map is partly based on a model - but why it would determine that a fully electrified rail would be releasing NOx in dangerous amounts is a good question.

I don't think many diesels trains come through FH - or in sufficient numbers to tip us over the limit. Maybe a few come through at night?

My guess is they have a record of the diesel traffic running further up the line at Croydon perhaps, and assumed it all comes our way rather than turning off at Selhust towards Clapham.

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johnfbw


Posts: 13
Joined: Nov 2014
Post: #15
23-07-2016 07:34 PM

It is already illegal for large lorries to go down Devonshire road as it has a weight limit. There police just don't bother enforcing it

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Devonish Forester


Posts: 62
Joined: Nov 2015
Post: #16
23-07-2016 09:27 PM

Quote:
I don't think many diesels trains come through FH - or in sufficient numbers to tip us over the limit. Maybe a few come through at night?


That's what I assumed, but have started paying more attention (without becoming a full-time train spotter).

Without doing a detailed and accurate count, I reckon 15% - 20% of non-Overground trains coming through Forest Hill are diesels. I don't think any of the trains that actually stop at FH are diesels.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #17
24-07-2016 12:11 PM

Interesting - the map may be right after all.

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Devonish Forester


Posts: 62
Joined: Nov 2015
Post: #18
25-07-2016 05:57 PM

Perryman wrote

Quote:
the road/pavement is far too narrow for some vehicles


The pavement is wide at some points but very narrow at others.

Would chicanes help? I have seen elongated chicanes (apologies if my terminology isn't correct) where the pavement is widened and the road is narrowed to allow one-way only. Sometimes these sections are governed by traffic lights, sometimes by priority for vehicles in one direction.

This post was last modified: 25-07-2016 05:58 PM by Devonish Forester.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #19
26-07-2016 11:38 AM

Seems a good idea.
Widen the pavements outside Fairlawn to a safe width and give priority to the traffic from Honor Oak so that junction is not clogged.
It would give a message to through traffic that this is primarily a residential road and would take the strain off the junction with the S.circ at the other end.

With traffic reduced to more local demands, perhaps our betters at Manor mt might even allow drivers sensible access to the Sainsburys car park. You never know.

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johnfbw


Posts: 13
Joined: Nov 2014
Post: #20
26-07-2016 12:52 PM

Opening Manor mount to two way traffic would make it a thoroughfare to the south circular obstructing the road and making it impossible for ambulances to get out of their station. Also making it dangerous to enter the south circular at the now renovated junction

Honor oak Road whether you like it or not is the widest most appropriate thoroughfare it can support heavy traffic and is two way (unlike all the other roads around which are hilly,weight restricted and basically one car wide)
It is wider than Dartmouth road which is an 'A' road

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