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Muslim customs
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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #1
04-11-2008 11:20 AM

[Moved from SE23 Topics > Touareg]

PVP Wrote:
Please please, let us avoid poorly informed religious stereotypes. Muslims are not permitted to eat pig. This does not preclude touching a pig product (pig-skin shoes etc).


Are you sure? On what basis is this case being brought then?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3363113/...fasts.html

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hilltopgeneral


Posts: 156
Joined: Mar 2004
Post: #2
04-11-2008 12:43 PM

A vexatious one?

Nothing new though - think of the Indian Mutiny.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #3
04-11-2008 12:52 PM

I would like to point out that The Lemon Grove has a Muslim Chef and she seems to cook pork products.

Does anyone know why the Pig is considered beyond the pale in Muslim and Jewish circles.?
The Chinese seem to have no problem with Pinky and Perky

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #4
04-11-2008 12:54 PM

Them foreigners: they're all the same, so why do they believe different things?!

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #5
04-11-2008 01:15 PM

It's the Old Testament, innit.

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #6
04-11-2008 02:44 PM

Your knowledge of the religious affiliation of the chef at the Lemon Grove surprises me, Brian.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #7
04-11-2008 03:50 PM

It is only because I saw her with a head scarf , of course she may not be a muslim but I guessed she was.

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PVP


Posts: 271
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #8
04-11-2008 07:56 PM

I hate to enlighten the Christians, but you also should not eat pig according to the Bible. Note all 3 religions are part of the same God and books, you only disagree on who is a prophet. As Christianity went in to northern Europe though, it is one of the rules which was never enforced and then conveniently forgotten.

As to why, I believe it was to do with the pig being willing to naturally eat its own meat, and any other c**p which comes along. This does funny things to the food chain (think when we let cows and sheep eat crushed up bits of their kin).

Back to my original point, as explained to me by educated Muslims who can speak Arabic and read the Koran, they are allowed to wear pig, handle pig, use hearts grown in pigs should the technology allow, but not consume. BTW, the cases referred to as being unable to handle/go near invariably involve muslims from eastern cultures who do not speak arabic and therefore cannot read the Koran and instead rely on a cleric to tell them what to believe (one of the main rules of Islam is to read and speak Arabic so you can read the word of Mohammed yourself and not have someone tell you what he said).

Interesting enough, the Mrs (who is a GP specialising in diet and nutrition) attended a conference today where ham and bacon were singled out as two of the biggest dietary causes of cancer, absolute no-no's.

I'll see if I can find the pork bit in the Koran.

PS I do love a bacon sarnie though, unbeatable.

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roz


Posts: 1,793
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #9
04-11-2008 07:58 PM

I believe that pigs are considered unclean in both Jewish and Muslim societies- probably emanates from health and safety ie pork was hard to keep fresh in hot countries unlike lamb and beef which could be salted and stored. Others may know more.

PS I think the person in the Lemon Grove is just following health and safety guidelines too!

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #10
04-11-2008 08:33 PM

It's clearly important to his notion of his Islamic faith not to handle sausages and bacon as well as not eat pig meat. Not sure it's really about a 'correct' Islam and an 'incorrect' one, highly unlikely that either is to actually exist.

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #11
04-11-2008 08:37 PM

And neither, if what you're saying is correct and that it's a widespread belief amonts Muslims from eastern cultures, is it a stereotype.

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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #12
04-11-2008 08:58 PM

I thought it was because of the tapeworms. All for sound health reasons (at that time). Same with a whole lot of other Jewish (don't know if they apply to Muslims as well) no-no's - like shellfish, often dodgy (especially in summer - hence the saying about not eating oysters when there isn't an R in the month) because, I think, the way they feed makes them likely to pick up bacteria from sewage, and ritual washing before eating and using separate plates for stuff - note how in restaurants today they have to use different chopping boards for veg & meat - same thing - it all makes sound hygiene sense!

Someone who knew an awful lot about disease and hygiene, which Europeans didn't discover till the 19th century, to lay down all these "rules" ... but we've had all the does God exist arguments already (on the Here our Prayer thread). Personally, I'd go for the time travel/aliens theories .... (I've read too much science fiction!)

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michael


Posts: 3,210
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #13
04-11-2008 10:29 PM

There is another argument that says that the geography of the Middle East is particularly unsuitable for pigs and much more suitable for sheep, goats, and cows. Pigs are designed for living in forests, outside of forests then are a significant drain on resources.

Cows, sheep and goats are grazers and are much more suitable for semi-nomadic people. They are capable of eating grass, from which humans cannot gain sustenance. For ecological reasons it would make sense for Semitic peoples living in the Middle East not to eat pigs. For people living in large sections of China, South East Asia, and Europe, eating pigs is much more environmentally sustainable - assuming you are hunting them in the forests rather than intensively rearing them in sheds.

There is one other reason I have heard for not eating pork is that it is difficult to distinguish from human flesh. It could well be that this prohibition developed to avoid cannibalism or because people found the whole idea of eating something that looked so similar to human flesh ... distasteful.

However, it should be noted that the Torah and Koran makes no such health claims for the reasoning on these rules.

Different sects within Islam may well have different customs regarding pigs, with some shunning all products from pigs. This is almost certainly a long held tradition amongst groups of Muslims and does not need to come directly from the Koran. Father Christmas, Lent, and Purgatory are not mentioned in the bible, but that does not mean that groups of Christians have not incorporated the ideas into Christianity.

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baggydave


Posts: 384
Joined: May 2004
Post: #14
04-11-2008 11:24 PM

Father Christmas - ah at last you are talking my language Michael. A good pagan symbol (solistice, ending of winter etc). And the flying reindeers, even better, hermits in Central Europe would high on mushrooms would imagine that they saw the reindeers flying (think there is also a story that they would drink reindeer wee as the reindeers themselves liked the mushrooms and the hallucinogen was still active).

Coming down the chimney? Again back to our friends in central Europe, where during winter in the snow the chimney was a hole in the centre of the roof that also acted as a door.

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PVP


Posts: 271
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #15
06-11-2008 12:13 PM

Last census - hands up who entered Jedi as their religion??

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manicmama


Posts: 6
Joined: Nov 2008
Post: #16
25-11-2008 09:58 PM

Hi there, I'm new to this forum, I can understood the reason that Muslims and other religions have a problem with pigs, but what is it with Muslim faith and dogs? I don't understand that one, can anyone enlighten me?

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michael


Posts: 3,210
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #17
25-11-2008 11:26 PM

This link will give you some information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_animals#Dogs

Personally I think they just liked clean pavements.

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Michael Palaeologus


Posts: 2
Joined: Nov 2008
Post: #18
28-11-2008 12:45 PM

Many of these seem to be cultural more than religious. A Muslim friend of mine recoils from all contact with pigs as they are concidered unclean.

In many Muslim countries feet are seen to be unclean and hitting people with a shoe a grave insult, hence the pictures of Iraqis hitting a fallen statue of Saddam with their shoes in the immediate aftermath of the fall of Baghdad.

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