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Recent increase in aircraft noise
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davidwhiting


Posts: 74
Joined: Dec 2003
Post: #1
07-07-2015 09:18 PM

Does anyone else think there has been much more aircraft traffic over Forest Hill in the evenings in recent weeks?

It is sometimes very intrusive with a plane going over almost every minute.

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #2
07-07-2015 09:38 PM

We have this debate on this forum every summer, and the answer is always no, we are just more aware at this time of year!

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robbrockley


Posts: 90
Joined: Jun 2013
Post: #3
07-07-2015 10:56 PM

Not noticed a thing; in fact it seems pretty quiet to me the moment.

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jaradras


Posts: 45
Joined: Jan 2014
Post: #4
08-07-2015 07:41 AM

There is more noise from traffic (cars, buses, motor bikes, lorries etc) on Honor Oak Road than aircraft in the sky. Aircraft noise not an issue, summer or winter.

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hoona


Posts: 201
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #5
08-07-2015 08:55 AM

I agree with about the increase in plane noise recently, but I think there are always more planes in the summer due to more people going on holiday. Also we tend to have our windows open so hear them more. Last night there was one a minute until gone 11pm.

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lacb


Posts: 623
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #6
08-07-2015 09:35 AM

Sometimes we get the Heathrow flights, in which case yes every minute but some days we don't so just left with the traffic noise which is just constant so I think we just filter that out. Can't say it particularly bothers me, noise-wise, having lived in West London.

London is an unusual major city that routes flights in this way. Compare with Schiphol for instance - a much larger airport and much less noticeable.

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CrustyRack


Posts: 53
Joined: Mar 2014
Post: #7
08-07-2015 12:37 PM

Not only do we get the Heathrow bound flights, we also get the city airport bound flights that do an about turn over Brockley/Peckham. I only know this as I have the Radar24 app installed on my ipad, and was sitting in my hot tub last night tracking where they were coming from/going to.
I always thought airplanes had to have a minimum of one mile between them. They come much closer than that very frequently...

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lacb


Posts: 623
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #8
08-07-2015 12:52 PM

This is true but again not on all days and these are mostly much quieter jets. Flights can be much closer than that provided they are at different levels - 500ft clearance is allowed IIRC.

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Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #9
08-07-2015 02:12 PM

What also has to be taken into account of course is the weather. Environmental differences on different days can cause the aircraft to sound louder. Same with the police helicopter.

There is a word / phrase evading me right now, which would make more sense if used, but .... Confused

I would recommend using a website such as http://www.flightradar24.com/ or a phone / tablet app to get the actual frequency, altitudes and speeds of the planes, can actually be quite interesting too. I'm sure CrustyRack would agree.

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lacb


Posts: 623
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #10
08-07-2015 02:30 PM

Quote:
There is a word / phrase evading me right now, which would make more sense if used, but ...


turbulence? I did see a scholarly report once that claimed that most the noise from a modern jet is actually from the interaction with the air. Similarly most traffic noise, on a modern car, is from tyre against road. Sorry, don't have source to hand.

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #11
08-07-2015 02:49 PM

Possibly an occlusion where warmer air is forced over colder air giving denser air which can reflect sound.

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lacb


Posts: 623
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #12
08-07-2015 04:20 PM
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Melissa


Posts: 20
Joined: May 2006
Post: #13
08-07-2015 10:21 PM

You're right that no other capital city puts up with this, not one that I know of anyway. And whether or not air traffic has increased recently, it certainly has in the last few years. One of the reasons I came to live in South East London was that it had little aircraft noise. Now we seem to have most of the Heathrow traffic directly overhead.

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davidwhiting


Posts: 74
Joined: Dec 2003
Post: #14
09-07-2015 07:57 AM

"I did see a scholarly report once that claimed that most the noise from a modern jet is actually from the interaction with the air. Similarly most traffic noise, on a modern car, is from tyre against road. Sorry, don't have source to hand."

As an aircraft engine works by the interaction of hot gas and the air, might it not be expected that that is what causes the noise?

On a more serious point, I have an old school friend who has been active in the campaign against the third runway and I will ask what information he can throw on the matter. On which point, it is worth saying that if there is a strong Heathrow campaign in West London, people in East London need to make their voices heard, or the problem will just be exported to other parts of the region.

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Melissa


Posts: 20
Joined: May 2006
Post: #15
09-07-2015 12:30 PM

Does anyone know of studies of the effect of aircraft pollution on children's health? Or anyone's health for that matter?

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michael


Posts: 3,199
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #16
09-07-2015 01:30 PM

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...vironment/
10,000 deaths per year due to aircraft. Compared to 60,000 for ships.

Map of London air quality
http://www.londonair.org.uk/london/asp/annualmaps.asp
What you won't notice is any massive streaks running in and out of Heathrow (other than in the airport itself and the roads leading in). Aircraft pollution is dispersed in the air so exact flight paths make little difference.

Children in London (anyone for that matter) will be more seriously impacted by air pollution from road traffic.

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Melissa


Posts: 20
Joined: May 2006
Post: #17
09-07-2015 03:14 PM

Only slightly reassured to know that the pollution goes everywhere and not just here. All this has crept up very insidiously. If ten years ago a huge motorway across London lined by factories belching pollution had been proposed, it would have been furiously resisted. But that is more or less what has happened with air traffic.

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michael


Posts: 3,199
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #18
09-07-2015 04:08 PM

The map of pollution shows that there are higher levels of air pollution on the Great Wester railway line than on the M4 heading out of London. It also shows that although pollution levels on the M25 are very high, they aren't as high as Park Lane, Euston Road, or Catford town centre.

The geographic impact of planes on air pollution will depend on their altitude and the wind patterns. Generally speaking, the higher the planes the less close by or concentrated the pollution levels. So the Biggin Hill stack for Heathrow airport shows some of the lowest levels of air pollution in London.

The contribution of air traffic to air pollution appears to be relatively small compared to road traffic.

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Melissa


Posts: 20
Joined: May 2006
Post: #19
09-07-2015 08:47 PM

Of course the pollution is less than that from traffic. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't care about it. Cheap flights and airline profits mean that our environment is degraded without consulting or any benefit to us. I feel that we have been skilfully shafted without noticing it by the airlines and BAA with the full knowledge and co-operation of the various national governments and probably local government as well. As it seems it's not a matter of concern to many people, apparently there's not a lot that can be done about it.

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jaradras


Posts: 45
Joined: Jan 2014
Post: #20
10-07-2015 02:47 PM

There are far more rigorous environmental controls ( emissions, noise etc) on the aviation sector compared to other transport methods. As I said in my earlier post #4, to me the noise, road rage, pollution from cars on my road is more of an issue than aircraft noise & pollution.

Airlines, tour operators/air industry do not make huge profits, their profit margins are very tight. They make approximately £3 profit from each passenger ( figures from last year). Airlines also carry a lot of freight & overall they contribute £52 billion to the UK economy & provide lots of jobs. Foreign visitors coming over to the UK by air contribute around £17 billion to the UK economy each year. So there are huge economic benefits.

There are also social benefits - they carry us to our holidays & for us to meet our friends and relatives . Last year half of the UK population took at least one trip by air & around a quarter flying three or more times a year.

There are great social and economic benefits of aviation & I for one am fully supportive of this industry.

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