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Highway improvements to Dartmouth Road
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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #141
22-03-2016 11:29 AM

lacb, you're right in what you say, but rather than an individual being invited to represent FHTA I think we should all have been asked for someone to attend the meeting on behalf of us, that way anyone with any concerns could have made the representative aware of these prior to the meeting.

Don't worry, I have now pointed out that if someone is representing FHTA then they should make everyone else aware of what they are doing.

I actually feel a bit sorry for the trader as well because something as important as this shouldn't have been left for one person to deal with.

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #142
22-03-2016 12:14 PM

I'm getting a bit confused here about what has actually happened.

Is it the case that the FHTA as a group was not informed of the meeting? If so, any trader who was there can't be said to be representing the FHTA, as they weren't put forward by the group to represent them.

Was this failure to invite the FHTA an oversight? A misunderstanding? Was a trader invited under other auspices and the assumption (wrongly) made that they would automatically also represent the FHTA? I don't see why anyone who want to deliberately exclude them as stakeholders.

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #143
22-03-2016 01:04 PM

Yes rshdunlop, it is the case that FHTA as a group were not informed about this meeting or the previous meeting.

I only found out about the meeting on the 15th March by sheer chance, before that I didn't even know a Dartmouth Rd improvements stakeholders group existed!

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #144
22-03-2016 08:49 PM

So it appears very few people are actually in the clique. I said it as a joke but it appears to be true. Stunned.

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #145
22-03-2016 10:23 PM

Here is an email I have just sent to Cllr's

I think all local residents & traders should be kept in the loop about this important decision on what will happen on D Rd.

In my eyes it's not down to a few people to make this decision, it needs to be advertised with everyone's input.

I know I may be unpopular for posting this but all need to know because it's only fair!

"Hi All

Can anyone explain to me why the traders as a whole were not made aware of this!

All but Chris are part of our FHTA Google group so it would have been very easy to make us all aware of this.

One trader does not & can not represent us as a whole, so WHY was only one trader invited to this meeting & the previous meeting none of us were aware of?

We were not informed that someone was representing us!

I feel this was not down to this trader but rather down to you guys to make us aware as a group.

I am extremely peed off we were not told about this (the trader concerned never shared this info with anyone else but that was their decision) if it was me I would have asked the whole group for feedback to put across at the meeting.

I must say I now feel this is all underhand now & local residents & traders should have all access to this kind of information.

Its not good at all & I will as always share my thoughts with all because all deserve to know what is going on rather than it be a small group of people making decisions for all of us!

Quite annoyed P x

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #146
23-03-2016 12:19 AM

Just to let all know after email responses on this I have suggested all ought to make their views & what they know public!

I am not and don't want to be part of this group after email responses tonight which isn't just Cllr's.

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Anotherjohn


Posts: 375
Joined: May 2005
Post: #147
23-03-2016 08:21 AM

Quote:
So it appears very few people are actually in the clique. I said it as a joke but it appears to be true. Stunned.


Apparently, the recent meeting was for the council to report back to the community after reviewing their findings in the original consultation. To give stakeholders the benefit of the doubt, personally, I think that a lack of communication and understanding between them led to this not being shared with the FHTA - and it's nothing more than that - but they're all hooked-up now.

Hopefully there's no harm done as the design isn't set in stone yet so there's still plenty of opportunity for anyone who has any comments or ideas to air them here. Or, failing that, is there anyone in the stakeholders group who would mind receiving suggestions by direct email?

This post was last modified: 23-03-2016 08:22 AM by Anotherjohn.

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michael


Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #148
23-03-2016 08:48 AM

anotherjohn wrote:
is there anyone in the stakeholders group who would mind receiving suggestions by direct email?

the chair of the FHTA has already asked for any feedback directly from traders. I have also provided you with the email address for Lewisham Council transport team who are collating feedback from all (transport@lewisham.gov.uk). You also have my email address if you want to share your feedback with me, but even if you send me feedback I urge you to send it directly to the council as well.

p1971 wrote:
I am not and don't want to be part of this group after email responses tonight which isn't just Cllr's.

I'm lost as to which groups you want to be part of and which groups you don't. But I don't particularly wish to continue this argument on the forum, so I hope others will excuse me if I don't respond to the previous post.

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #149
23-03-2016 10:14 AM

Michael, I was meaning the stakeholders group.

I don't want to argue about this either, If I feel strongly about something I can sometimes get quite passionate about it & I'll admit sometimes to much.

I'll take it that this was just an oversight that FHTA was not informed as a group & just a genuine misunderstanding/mistake & no fault of any individual.

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #150
23-03-2016 10:53 AM

Just to confirm what Michael said, the minutes & an email asking for feedback was sent to the FHTA Google group last night.

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Cllr Paul Upex


Posts: 41
Joined: Jan 2014
Post: #151
23-03-2016 05:09 PM

Hello everybody –if you look back at this thread, you will see that many people have different views as to how we can improve Dartmouth Road. We can consult and re-consult, but it is a fact of life that we will not all agree. But I will always work and do what I think is best for Forest Hill having listened and taken on board the many different views that will exist.

Lewisham Council has in my opinion tried to listen to all stakeholders and take on the views of residents, businesses, pedestrians, car drivers and cyclists in order to take this scheme forward. These proposals have come to the Forest Hill Ward Assembly meetings 3 times and over 1000 leaflets were delivered along Dartmouth Road as part of the consultation with only 26 responses. If work does not start soon, this money for improvements could be lost and re-allocated by TfL.

With regards to the Stakeholder meeting The Forest Hill society were represented, the Forest Hill traders by the Chair of the Forest Hill Traders, Lewisham Cyclist were also invited, as well as V22 who are working on the library project plus 3 Forest Hill Cllrs and the Cabinet Members /Sydenham Cllr Chris Best who shared her experience with regards to the Sydenham scheme. A stakeholder groups is by definition aimed at representing the community and I think we achieved this. It was never the intention to exclude, hide or mislead anyone.

Finally just so everyone is aware or if they haven’t been invited - parents who are interested in setting up a Friends of Baxters Field Group are meeting tonight in the Bricklayers Pub at 8pm (Wednesday) and I will be joining them.

Happy Easter to everyone on the forum

Take care and remember to shop local

Cllr Paul Upex

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kelly


Posts: 20
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #152
23-03-2016 05:29 PM

Thank you Paul and Michael for words of sanity, I really don't understand what the problem is,I did receive an invitation to attend as I was at the previous meeting where nobody as I remember was there representing traders,hence they did not register there desire to be actively involved,the only reason I did not attend this time was because I was in hospital,it is crazy to think that the world and his wife should attend all meetings,let's hope we retain the money and work starts asap

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Anotherjohn


Posts: 375
Joined: May 2005
Post: #153
23-03-2016 06:24 PM

Quote:
Thank you Paul and Michael for words of sanity... it is crazy to think that the world and his wife should attend all meetings,let's hope we retain the money and work starts asap


I agree.

I spoke to Les Senior from the Highways department about 10 days ago and he said that work is due to start in early 2017. Given that this money needs to be spent before the end of the financial year I think they'd be cutting it a bit fine if they don't things underway before the end of the summer.

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #154
23-03-2016 06:45 PM

Kelly, the previous meeting I think you refer to was a long time ago & was a public meeting not a stakeholders meeting. I was also there.

Public meetings & stakeholders meeting are two completely different things.

As you can see from Paul's post FHTA were represented by the chair at this stakeholders meeting, the problem is this was not shared with the rest of the traders via FHTA group so all were aware & could have had a meeting or simply voiced any concerns we may have prior to the meeting to be put across.

So nobody would have been representing the traders at the meeting you attended.

If you received an invitation to attend this meeting then as far as I know you're the only person who did that isn't a stakeholder. Paul has also told us in his post who the stakeholders are.

The reason why it's important is because suggestions can be made about slight changes to the plans which could make a massive difference in the end result!

I too hope the work starts soon so the money's not lost!

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kelly


Posts: 20
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #155
23-03-2016 08:12 PM

pauline I don't think you were at the last meeting,btw I know the difference between the types of meeting,those present at the last meeting were asked who wished to be involved in the Dartmouth rd meeting/project I clearly stated I did hence my invitation to this last meeting,personally I don't care if that makes me a stakeholder or not,it seems to me your argument is an internal one with the other members of the traders and not the people who are trying to get this project to completion

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Perryman


Posts: 820
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #156
23-03-2016 09:11 PM

I like the way Lewisham announce one of their objectives of "improving the sense of arrival in FH" with a picture of the library - an essential public facility they feel they can no longer fully fund.
But somehow there is money for a fancy granite makeover for DR.

I guess the idea is to get a pedestrian-zone feel to the road, without actually restricting traffic in any way, as that might be unpopular.
If the aim is to help encourage traffic to stick to the new speed limits then, as already proved on Perry Vale, these cosmetic non-crossing crossings do not slow traffic. Nor help anyone cross the road.

Anyway, I welcome the pavement widening near Sydenham school (the narrow barrier stretch) and if the traders need changes to attract customers, then fair enough. But I get the impression these changes are not for them either, so I wonder what it is all about.

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #157
23-03-2016 09:24 PM

Quote:
Cllr Paul Upex wrote

With regards to the Stakeholder meeting, ... Lewisham Cyclists were also invited...

Lewisham Motorists too, I hope.

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samuelsen


Posts: 448
Joined: Feb 2016
Post: #158
23-03-2016 10:48 PM

We need a library funded by Lewisham Council, NOT council tax payers money WASTED on a granite makeover for Dartmouth Road. Cllr Upex, can you take that back to the council from the people YOU represent.

"But somehow there is money for a fancy granite makeover for DR."

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #159
23-03-2016 10:54 PM

If I wasn't at the last meeting Kelly it would only have been because I wasn't made aware of it. I have heard not just via hear that you have been unwell lately. Wishing you the best & hope you are ok regardless of what we think is right or wrong.

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #160
23-03-2016 11:21 PM

I am only one person & can only share my own views & I have a lot to share.
I wish I could do more but I can't as one person. I'm sorry if I've peed people off or not done enough.

I will always be public in everything I do & hope this is enough for anyone & anything I am involved in.

In short whatever I do I will make all aware!

This comes from me being aware that not all things are shared with all.

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