brencud - what you say about enforcement cameras is interesting.

I don't think traffic wardens alone will do it though. They already come up Dartmouth Road on their motorbikes several times a day but I'm sure they cut some slack, understandably, to the traders in the bottleneck and it only takes a few minutes of someone being parked there to create disproportionate havoc.

I'm really looking forward to seeing a solution - and one which doesn't impact too heavily on the businesses down there, many of which are well-established and hugely important to the town.

I agree Anotherjohn. And bizarrely the concept drawings for the improvements did not deal with deliveries and servicing at all. A major oversight. Top priority has to be ensuring the businesses can still function.

Unless the plan is to damage business to the extent where no one needs to park, so no more traffic issues? I jest of course.

As much as I love a good wide pavement, I also hate seeing under utilised spaces, such as outside the old post-office. Im sure its been said, but some diagonal bays over there would be ideal I'm sure. And further up by the job centre or whatever it is now days.

Ultimately though there needs to be an actual deterrent to parking long term. The pavement is narrow already, so 2 wheels up isn't a solution.

Its truly ones of those "no perfect solutions" matters, but keen to see the ideas that come out of it all.

For me Dartmouth Road needs two things. Decent parking for the shops and a road wide enough for two busses to pass all the way along. Nothing else matters. So an enforced no parking up down near Laurels then some decent parking where the pavement is really wide like outside the job centre etc would be fine with me. I wouldnt have bus stops anywhere where they will block the road either. On a final point, the one issue we have is the blocking of the exit onto the south circular by cars queuing - so an effective yellow box junction there would help traffic flow on Dartmouth Road too.

All sounds like a plan to me Deano.
Box junction would be for TfL to decide, but most seem to be getting taken out these days, not put in.

As lovely as open spaces are, when they have low foot fall, and are vast spaces which could be used for other purposes, like parking to support local business, it should be a simple decision surely.

Really? Like removing or drastically reducing the only outside areas that can support pleasant outside sitting, eating and drinking in Dartmouth Road?

You future is in food, drink and making shopping enjoyable, an experience, not turning the street into a parking lot.

The plans seem a decent compromise, but eating into the pavement should have a limit.

I was looking at the space outside the Sylvan Post the other day and it is very deep indeed. The tables only take up the back half. Of course, the problem is that the unused half provides a buffer area between the tables and the traffic. It won't be quite as pleasant if that is given over the parking.

Having said that, people in London happily eat perched pretty much under the exhausts of passing cars. It could be worse.

I think it would do Dartmouth Road a world of good if there were more short-term parking slots. There have been so many times when I've wanted to buy a birthday card at Bunka or have a quick look for my favourite author/subject in the books in the charity shops or do some other 10 minute shopping trip but the parking hassle means it's just not worth it.

It's agreed then. More short term parking and a free flowing road wide enough for traffic. The rest of the money Lewisham save to be given back to taxpayers.

So it's agreed, then! Space to sit and enjoy, pavements to walk on and hang about. Edible high streets, pianos, street markets, open studios...cafes with space outside....

ie life...

Pull up a deck chair and look on whilst the locals stumble their way from Bird in the hand to Paddy Power. Fortunately, the new road layout means total gridlock so they have no chance of being run over.

Sipping my craft beer very pleasantly outside the sylvan

Have some ambition for pity's sake.

If I had my way, you'd be able to park there too.

I think that a relatively cost effective way to alleviate some of the traffic problems on Dartmouth Road would be:

a) to put a box junction or at least a KEEP CLEAR area where it joins the South Circular to stop the blocking that currently occurs.
b) make the narrow part of the road from the SC to Derby Hill completely "No Stopping" from 7 to 10 in the morning and 4 to 7 in the evening. This will allow unimpeded flow in both directions during the busiest times and give the businesses along that stretch 6 hours during the slacker part of the day to arrange their deliveries.
c) remove all those little triangular islands outside the shops between Derby Hill and Clyde Vale and paint in some bays to maximise the available parking space.
d) If it can be done with the entrance and exit in Derby Hill then cut the pavement back outside Heron House and the Job Centre to provide a few more bays. I think it will be a bad idea both here and outside Sylvan Post if cars have to reverse onto DR to get out of the bays.
e) a zebra crossing somewhere, perhaps between say Rob's barber shop and the pools.

Of course all of our thoughts only matter if someone involved in the decision making process is taking notice of them.

Having lived above what is now Doopo Doopo for five years, the idea that the people parking there are *cue violin music* struggling small business owners who have to park there or they will quite simply starve is ridiculous. They're just inconsiderate people. It's shocking that nothing has been done about this before now.

Little sympathy in general for the 'if you can't park within a millimetre of my shop I'll go out of business' line.

Good to see some nice debate here on the matter, for once without it spiralling into being a little bitter.

Totally get the point about the reduction of the pavements in said places, but as RSH has said, its not uncommon to be a lot closer to roads. Yes we would all love loads of open space etc, but its really not a reality (in my opinion)

The vast expanses are indeed lovely for sipping a drink, but sadly are also poorly kept, invites to undesirables to hang about as well. A compromise would work fine im sure. Plenty of space for all.

I agree that parking RIGHT outside a premises is not a must for success and business, but obviously 'close by' is preferred for the quick nip to the shop shopper.

I think there is a compromise to be had somewhere, without any group suffering too much.

John, point taken re reversing to get out of diagonal or similar bays, discussion is a great thing to see the bigger picture.

Agree re the triangles too, was saying it the better half only the other day as we walked along Dartmouth Rd.

Thankfully doesn't look like the space outside the Sylvan is reduced in the plans. As the only deep space outside a business anywhere along the whole road where anyone can really sit outside, that's a good thing for me. Hopefully the pointless and never-used phone box will be removed from there, too, but seating around the trees retained.

I'd say to avoid any 'stripey' paving if possible in the design. Don't think it looks so good and will date as a visual concept. Keep it simple.

But the plans look really nice. Can't wait.

Forest Hill Society response to the consultation can be read at http://www.foresthillsociety.com/2015/06...dback.html