Michael, you do not sound priggish or sanctimonious in this instance. And I agree that the practices of officials at Louise House should be viewed in their appropriate social and historical context.

Michael is absolutely right - Janus Korczak was obviously an extraordinary person who should be celebrated both via an English Heritage blue plaque and by the preservation and celebration of Louise House. If there is a successful application for a blue plaque then it will become the second one recently erected in the area - last September Eleanor Marx's house in Jew's Walk was celebrated in this way. There is no doubt that both English Heritage and the National Trust have to grapple with all sorts of historical issues that today cause controversy - for example, many great mansions (eg Harewood House in Yorkshire) were owned by families whose wealth partly derived from the slave trade or industry (most of the owners of great houses in the north of England would have been coalowners or steel magnates, for example). However, if we are to sweep all this away our culture and history would be totally impoverished. To return to the site on Dartmouth Rd - Allies & Morrison, and other architects, have demonstrated that a leisure centre which contains two pools and a gym etc can be accommodated there. Echoing its historical role, Louise House could become an arts & educational centre, and issues to do with access for those with disabilites could be resolved by sensitive conservation architects. Building a new leisure centre in the back street of Willow Way will do nothing for footfall in Dartmouth Road and will lead to the further decline of both Dartmouth Road and Forest Hill town centre. The current site will be neglected until there is an upturn in the housing market, and at some point in the distant future an intense housing development may be built - adding to the glut that already exists in Forest Hill.

I would like to point out on this thread, rather than the pools thread, that if the pool site was sold off for housing (to fund a pool on Willow Way) this may, or may not, include Louise House.

However, if the pool did become a large residential development it is unlikely that planning permission would be given for an arts centre in such close proximity due to the noise likely to be generated from the site in evenings and weekend.

I have come to my own conclusion that option 3 would mean that Louise House would be lost to community use and would either become more housing (if profitable) or would be left empty.

The best way to get an arts centre in Louise House is for the pool to remain in its current location. It would also encourage users of the pool to make use of the arts centre and vice versa.

During that last meeting on the consultation options, it was reported that the Mayor thinks it unlikely that Louise House could be converted into any kind of public access amenity due to the problems of converting this (listed) House to be 'wheelchair-friendly'.

I've no idea if this is really as categoric as it sounds. But certainly it sounds like the Council have indicated their unwillingness to use Louise House as anything else except private housing...

As if there weren't listed buildings with disabled access.

if my memory is working, it normaly is

louise house already has wheel chair access round the back of the building, i remember seeing a ramp up to the back door.
i think it also had a disabled loo in there.
wonder what the Mayor was really thinking when he came out with that

Look, basically the council and the Mayor are hacked off that their original plans to bulldoze the site and build a massive block of flats with a pool somewhere tucked behind it, have been scuppered by public disapproval and a heritage listing. Their response to this is clear - do everything possible to let the site rot until it HAS to be bulldozed. Ingore good ideas and dismiss possible options.

Of course the pools should be in Forest Hill - this is the town centre and where the pools have been for decades. What's the damn problem!

Of course I'd like to be proved wrong.....

How about changing the town name to Sydenham?

Interesting presentation at the FH ward assembly last night by Teresa Howard, about the plans to make LH an arts centre. I see she has already give a report on what happened at and after the meeting at http://louisehouse.blogspot.com/

Sounds good. Please can you reassure me that access to the building will also be provided for those who walk with difficulty? Ramps are for wheelchair users but a barrier for those who need level surface access. Thank you.

Dr Korczak?s Example.
The moving play about the educator and child psychotherapist who founded the Jewish Orphanage in Warsaw, which was relocated inside the ghetto in 1940, is playing at the Arcola Theatre, Dalston from 30 June to 18 July (arcolatheatre.com). Dr Korczak?s insistence on the equal treatment of children became the basis for the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. He said ?I?ve trained them well. For a perfect world. How will they survive this one??

Previews - 30th June - 2nd July - ?10 / ?7.50 (Under 13s)
Run - 3-18 July - ?15 / ?10 (concs)/ ?7.50 (Under 13s)

Last night at Lewisham's Mayor and Cabinet meeting, Councillor Chris Best made it clear that it was up to "the community" to come up with a use and funding for Louise House and, by implication, not the Council nor its councillors. If "the community", by whom she seemed to mean those whom Mayor Steve Bullock later denigrated as those who shout and make a noise about Council conduct, does not do as councillors require of them, then Louise House will be sold on for housing.

It is a great pity that the Mayor and Labour councillors remain so peeved about the listing of Louise House. Their peevishness is to say the least unreasonable and their conduct churlish. There is no reason why they, as the elected representatives of the community, should wash their hands of the development of Louise House into something other than housing. They could, and should given their electoral standing, be taking part in the discovery of alternative uses for this historically significant and hitherto unsung building.

Let us hope they see reason and without being pushed to to do so as has happened in respect of the swimming pools on Dartmouth Road.

Unfortunately I can't really blame them, churlish or peeved or whatever. It was various parts of the ' community' who scuppered its incorporation into the Pools site and held things up for over a year. We were supposed to be demolishing the site this time last year as I recall.

I can't see how Council officers realistically have the resources to explore what could be a very wide range of options. They would probably find the easiest route out and take it. Then the ' community' would not like it, and we'd be back on the usual treadmill. The other way of looking at this is that the community has been given a great opportunity to get what it wants on this site and this can be seen as a blessing or a curse depending on your perspective, but at least we cant say that they never want to listen to us.

I would assume that the Save the Face team in particular will be working hard to find alternative and sustainable uses for this property, given their extensive interest in preserving the fabric of the building.

Now, now Roz. You too could take part in the community. How would you like Louise House to be developed? And can you suggest sources of funding? All - polite - suggestions are welcome.

What would be churlish would be for 'the community' not to take advantage of this opportunity to do something good with Louise House.

By listing the building there was no expectation that the building should be used for the community or for housing. As long as it remains standing that is all English Heritage care about. The council quite rightly want to see something happen quickly with this building, before it ends up as more of an eyesore than it already is (boarded up windows, tarmac driveway, missing letters on the facade).

I want to see this building kept in community use and the council are willing to give the building to the community to do something special. How often do such opportunities come along?

Lewisham Council has just invested ?12.5m into a leisure centre next door, I think it would be difficult to expect them to now find even more money in the capital budget for renovating this building and turning it into an arts centre.

I hope that the 3000 people who wanted to keep this building will now support the arts/community centre proposals. This is going to be a big project, but with yesterday's victory I feel a little more confident that the community might be able to make this happen. In the next couple of weeks I intend to set up an action committee for Louise House to develop some ideas for arts/community uses of the building. We have a huge project ahead of us - we need to raise at least ?2m (but probably closer to ?4m) to refurbish a listed building, make it DDA compliant, and begin to offer some permenant uses of the building.

We need all the people we can get, particularly if you have experience in the performing arts field, community education and schools, running theatres and cinemas, project management, fundraising, architecture, and people with contacts in the organisations that might be able to help with funding. Please get in contact if you have any of these skills or if you are willing to give up some of your time to help turn this building into something very special rather than more housing.

It would none the less be churlish of the Mayor and councillors were they to refrain from taking part in finding a suitable community use for Louise House. They need to move on from their disappointment over the listing of the building.

The mayor did agree to allow officers to help develop the ideas. There are some council officers who have quite a good knowledge of what is required when setting up this type of venture and getting funding from central government. I do not think the mayor entered the meeting expecting to agree to this, but Tim and I persuaded him that it would be appropriate for the council to remain engaged with the community on this project.

I am also certain that Forest Hill ward councillors will support the community in setting up such a project in their ward, and once we start to demonstrate that we are serious about this project then others will jump on the bandwagon.

I wrote on 26 March:

Is this initiative still active?

It has not been active over the last couple of months while all looked hopeless for the pools. Now that the pools are safe this initiative needs to be moved forward, but it will need help from a lot of people to get this anywhere.

Friends of Louise House Launch: A Call for Ideas and Expertise

The newly formed Friends of Louise House held their inaugural meeting on Sunday 2nd August. The Friends, whose members come from a range of backgrounds, exist to preserve Louise House for the future by finding a new and publicly beneficial use for the building, which is currently unoccupied.

Louise House, the foundation stone for which was laid in 1890 by Queen Victoria?s daughter Louise, the Marchioness of Lorne (hence the name), is a handsome red brick building sandwiched between Forest Hill Library and the Pools site on Dartmouth Road. The Friends are engaged in a process to find a new use for the building before 2nd November 2009, failing which the Council will pursue a plan to convert the building into flats. The Council may be willing to pass over the building to a new user and the Friends favour uses which involve a publicly beneficial use with public access. The Friends would also like to see the past history of the building, including its former use as a Girls? Industrial Home and its link with Janusz Korczak, a leading children?s rights campaigner, celebrated in some way as part of the new plans. A range of ideas has already emerged, mainly focussed around themes of culture, heritage, health and learning. These include, so far, an arts centre with theatre, an extension to the library, a health centre, a nursery or children?s centre and a local history (or other) museum with education facilities.

We are open to other ideas, especially where there may be a clear path to funds from an outside body. We would like to hear from anyone who can support us in any way, however small. In particular we are interested in people who can help us in kind with relevant expertise, especially in legal work (trusts and charities), accountancy and fundraising in the Third Sector, project management and quantity surveying or architecture.

You can contact us at friendsoflouisehouse@googlemail.com
We are building a website with further information at http://sites.google.com/site/friendsoflouisehouse/

So no posters with any ideas on how to develop Louise House as a community facility???? Come on, come on. Input is needed. I look forward to hearing from you all.