I got on an Overground train to Canada Water yesterday. It was quite a surprise when at Canada Water it pulled into the southbound platform!

My guess is they may put on more of these short journey trains to ease the pressure.

The extra trains are timetabled in during the peaks until tomorrow. This is why New Cross doesn't have any Overground services currently as they'd be on that branch instead.

As have I and in fact even started an issue on Fix My Transport for this - did not get much traction sadly and now that my commute has changed have not pursued it either. They are not interested and I suspect won't be until such time as TfL run this and actually put service before profit. Don't hold your breath.

See here where we communicated on this before:
http://www.se23.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=8793

Having said all that East Croydon may get a round of improvements itself, a la Thameslink, which would probably help massively http://www.londonreconnections.com/2014/...t-croydon/ - more disruption to look forward to!

Here's the definitive response on changing at Canada Water from 15th January:

In other words, they can only cater for my preferred travel route if I buy a travelcard rather than a London Terminals ticket. Buying such a ticket will somehow make it tenable, rather than 'untenable' if I were travelling with a London Terminals ticket on the same route.

Hopefully I won't forget which train to get on with my London Terminals ticket, especially when they cancel or delay trains.

I must confess I do find the inefficient train services to and from Forest hill into town the only negative thing about living here.
Most weekends there seems to be some sort of closure on the overground
And when you do manage to get a train its always packed...Add that to the hell of the down escalator to the Jubilee line at Canada Water and I actually look forward to being on my late shifts at work when the grimness of getting home at 11pm is actually eclipsed by the relief of getting a seat on the overground and not facing the crush at the canada water interchange.
Since Boxing day its been particularly awful without a car having to get to work at Bond St by 8.30am has involved having no option but to get the bus.
Tomorrow the Overground is working again but guess what...Theres no Jubilee Line between Waterloo and Finchley Road.

So, breathtakingly, it is now officially acknowledged that Canada Water is at breaking point and a strain to manage. It would be interesting to know what forecasting, passenger usage modelling, planning and scenario testing they did when the station was converted for use by the overground and therefore why they built so ineffectually without any future-proofing, or even present-proofing (and very specifically what loon thought one down escalator would suffice between the overground and Jubilee line). I assume the rebuilding of London Bridge and Crossrail major infrastructure developments might also have been know at the time. I've a good mind to ask just such FOI questions.

The Overground trains were originally only going to be three carriage trains!

This post was last modified: 29-12-2014 08:04 PM by Sherwood.

I think Crossrail will take some of the pressure off Canada Water. Although, population growth will probably negate any benefit. You'll still have to queue up to use the escalators no matter what


Forest Hill is pretty spoilt for trains in terms of frequency. Probably one of the best in London for any non-major/non-interchange type station. People have realised this which is why the population density along the line is has gone through the roof.

We have 13 between 7-8am, 12 between 8-9am.
4 from London Bridge on the way home. 6 from Canada Water = 10.

Can you imagine living in East Dulwich where they get maybe 5 an hour? And there's only ONE route. No backup/2nd option (probably say this for most of the South East) We are spoilt!

Nick M - I couldn't agree more.

Decker, re: your closing comment - I assumed you had missed the original post in this thread so was about to point you to it. However, as it was you that made it I can only assume you're aware of the minor issues* on trains to London Bridge recently**.

Minor gripes aside though, I do of course agree that we have good travel options in Forest Hill and I have been pleasantly surprised by how reliable the Overground has been so far this week (probably because the sensible majority of people are still on Christmas holidays!).

I'm not sure I share your optimism with respect to Crossrail, although the Bakerloo line extension may help a little too.

* totally catastrophic service
** over the last 6-12 months

Crossrail will at least give us another back up when Southern from London Bridge has problems.

I still think Canada Water will take the bulk of passengers post 2018, yet if you're going to Tottenham Court Road, Bond Street or Paddington, or even across to Stratford, the Crossrail option is a more viable option than changing for the Jubilee.

I don't understand the 'we are spoilt' argument. They are not doing us a favour. At some stage, despite appearances, someone did do some passenger usage analysis and they run the trains where the is most revenue and most demand. Probably their franchise dictates this. I don't understand the argument that they are somehow spoiling us. It's a contract, which we pay for in our fares - and in our time when there are delays (money is not the only resource). They are breaking the terms of the contract. in what other area would we be so blasé about incompetence and inability to fulfil a contract?

Nick M - if only train franchising worked on the basis of logic, as you imply.

But I agree that it's not about being spoiled. The reality is that the London B service, when running, copes fine in the peak. But the Overground is worryingly overcrowded, and that's going to get worse.

Crossrail will help, but that's half a decade away still. I think they'll have to rebuild Canada Water, but that's no doubt much easier said than done. Even the up escalator to go the wrong way to the Jubilee line is now getting pretty crowded, and I notice the official announcements have been sending people that way for some months now.

They may have to make both escalators down only and direct passengers who want the northbound platform to go via the booking office.

Am I being dense, but how do you mean both escalators down only? There's only one escalator to make anything at the key crush point - from northbound Overground platform to Jubilee line platforms.

There are two escalators. One goes down and one comes up from the Jubilee line. It does not have many passengers.

I am suggesting that to clear the crush on the platform it may be necessary to make the up escalator go down!

I am anticipating that an extremely large number of passengers will squeeze into the Overground trains when there are no mainline trains. As Overground trains can arrive every four minutes they need to clear the platform before the next train arrives.

This post was last modified: 01-01-2015 12:10 PM by Sherwood.

Sherwood, it is a good idea but I did find out the excuse why it won't be done; the up escalator is regarded as an route for emergency evacuation from the jubilee line. I'm not sure how this can be changed but it at least explains why LOROL weren't able to reverse this escalator.

I'm still not getting this - how would changing the up escalator to down help? It's going to the wrong place.

At one end of the Jubilee platform, passengers in an emergency would have to go by the nearest exit, which happens to be the escalator to the northbound ELL platform, which then takes them to the ticket hall by walking along the platform and the next set of escalators.

It's quicker to evacuate using the three exits on the platform then making those at the far end of the Jubilee platform to walk to the centre of the platforms to leave.

Fine, but in terms of improving this interchange day to day for folk, what options are there beyond rebuilding?

The key pressure point is northbound ELL to Jubilee line - where for direct access there is just that one escalator. The only other option being the long way round - taking the up escalator to the gateline level and then laboriously down again. Just can't see this situ can go on indefinitely with existing demand, never mind increased demand.