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East London Line
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rbmartin


Posts: 802
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #141
27-04-2010 01:28 PM

TfL's Overground page has been updated with more relevant information for us further down the line.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projects.../5011.aspx

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FHSoc


Posts: 134
Joined: Nov 2009
Post: #142
27-04-2010 01:56 PM

The line is opening at first with a "preview running" service of eight trains an hour between Dalston Junction and New Cross or New Cross Gate, between 0700 BST and 2000 BST, from Monday to Friday.

Northbound services will leave New Cross Gate at 10, 25, 40 and 55 minutes past the hour, while Southbound services to New Cross Gate will leave Canada Water at 13, 28, 43, 58.

The Oyster Single Fare to London Bridge (via ELL) is still shown as £3.70 (peak) and £3.10 (off-peak) as opposed to £2.60 and £2.00 (via Southern)

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showtunesgirl


Posts: 203
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #143
27-04-2010 02:08 PM

What the article DOESN'T say is: Those who will continue to use the London Bridge service will be royally screwed as there will be a lot less trains. Closedeyes

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Red67


Posts: 141
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #144
27-04-2010 03:37 PM

I've just travelled back from Shoreditch High Street station on the London Overground, picking up a train to FH from NXG, and it took me exactly 24mins.
That felt freakishly quick given the time it normally takes me (ok it's during the day, on the first day, when there's fewer people travelling, train arrived at NXG really quickly etc etc, but even so....).
The new trains are very roomy, and it's great not having the interconnecting doors between carriages, like the DLR.
It was full of excited trainspotters....!

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rbmartin


Posts: 802
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #145
27-04-2010 04:27 PM

Did you use PAYG? If so, did you get charged a combined TfL/NR fare?

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FHSoc


Posts: 134
Joined: Nov 2009
Post: #146
28-04-2010 02:31 PM

We have just had the following confirmed by TfL:

Quote:
I can confirm the following on fares:

The fares between West Croydon and New Cross will be the TfL Oyster payg tariff. This applies to journeys just on the southern section, i.e. south of New Cross/New Cross Gate and for journeys north and south of New Cross/New Cross Gate.

Freedom passes will be accepted 24 hours a day on London Overground services, however for Southern services the freedom pass can be used after 9.30, as per Southern’s current policy on the route. Therefore the Freedom pass will not be valid for journeys into London Bridge before 9:30 and National Rail fares would apply for journey’s into London Bridge

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rbmartin


Posts: 802
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #147
28-04-2010 03:15 PM

Thanks for the clarification, if I've read that statement correctly, NR Oyster PAYG fares still apply if travelling to London Bridge or East Croydon without additional cost?

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FHSoc


Posts: 134
Joined: Nov 2009
Post: #148
28-04-2010 03:56 PM

That's my reading too. I have written to Southern for verification that their fares won't change.

TfL have added this clarification: (my costings in italic)

Quote:
I can confirm the following:

· Forest Hill to Canada Water will be a TfL PAYG fare (Zone 3 - Zone 2) – Yes this is correct £1.30 at all times

· Forest Hill to Bank (via ELL) will be a TfL PAYG Zone 3 - Zone 1 fare – Yes correct £2.70 peak, £2.40 off peak

· However, Forest Hill - Bank (via London Bridge) – If using Southern Services this would be on the National Rail/TfL combined tariff £3.70 peak, £3.10 off peak, however if you took the ELL to Shadwell and changed on to the DLR to Bank you would pay the TfL tariff PAYG zone 3 to zone 1 fare.£2.70 peak, £2.40 off peak

These fares apply from the 23 May. Until then the TfL/National Rail combined tariff would apply for a Forest Hill to Zone 1 via the ELL journey.

From 23 May the Forest Hill to Bank via the ELL PAYG fare is £2.70 peak/£2.40 off peak. Via London Bridge the fares are £3.70 peak and £3.10 off-peak.

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Jon Lloyd


Posts: 151
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #149
28-04-2010 05:27 PM

showtunesgirl:

Yesterday 01:08 PM

What the article DOESN'T say is: Those who will continue to use the London Bridge service will be royally screwed as there will be a lot less trains.
-------------------------

In fact, looking at The Trainline timetable for, late June, when everything will be in place, there still seems to be the same amount of trains from, for example, HOP in the morning rush hour. Whether they'll be reduced carriages or not I don't know.

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rbmartin


Posts: 802
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #150
28-04-2010 05:33 PM

All of the morning peak services from May 24th start from destinations closer to home, such as Streatham Hill, Norwood Junction, Victoria or Crystal Palace, which should mean more of a chance of a seat to London Bridge on Southern services. Along with the additional ELL trains which should take some of the strain away from Southern.

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blushingsnail


Posts: 364
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #151
29-04-2010 01:38 PM

The station name signs on the platforms at Honor Oak Park have been rebranded: black text on an orange background. They're not the same as the signs at New Cross Gate.

Personally I don't think the new HOP signs look very good (sorry don't have a photo) - they're dark and murky compared with the fresh, crisp signs at NXG.

FH and Brockley haven't been done yet (as of this morning anyway) so I wonder why HOP was singled out?

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rbmartin


Posts: 802
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #152
29-04-2010 01:48 PM

A bit like this sign at Kensington Olympia?

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Jon Lloyd


Posts: 151
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #153
29-04-2010 01:48 PM

I do try to be as upbeat as possible about local developments, but you're right, the signs look grim. Green is so much nicer and classier.

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Jon Lloyd


Posts: 151
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #154
29-04-2010 01:49 PM

And yes, consistency would have been a start!

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rymerster


Posts: 72
Joined: Sep 2009
Post: #155
29-04-2010 02:08 PM

It's not just about the way something looks, you need high contrast signs to be sure of where you are in bad weather, if you don't have very good eyesight, or are hard of hearing and depend on the visible signs to know where you are.

Orange backgound and white text would have worked better, but if in doubt good old black text on a white background is best every time.

I have worked on projects with TFL looking into accessibility before and they KNOW about this![/align]

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blushingsnail


Posts: 364
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #156
29-04-2010 02:46 PM

Thanks for the photo rbmartin. Yes, the HOP signs look like the Kensington Olympia one (although without the white part with the roundel, I think).

When I first saw the new signs I didn't like either the orange or the black text, but later I thought it might not look so bad if it was white text (which seems to be a TfL standard anyway - look at 'Overground' on the roundel). To give TfL the benefit of the doubt I assumed they couldn't use white text because of lack of contrast between the two colours, hence it has to be black instead. I wonder how easy they'll be to read after dark?

I'm now puzzled as to why the sign below the Kensington Olympia sign is black text on a white background, as many TfL signs are blue text on a white background.

I thought TfL's corporate signage was strictly adhered to, so I don't know what's going on here. Perhaps they now cover so many different modes of transport they're losing the plot a bit.

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blushingsnail


Posts: 364
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #157
29-04-2010 04:19 PM

I think I'm turning into a signage anorak Unsure. I've found the "London Overground signs standard" online. 66 pages long - I'm in corporate design heaven!

There's no evidence of black text on orange background. The station fascias are shown as white text on orange background, and the directional and information signs are blue text on white, with orange stripe along the top (a la New Cross Gate). There's a section on platform roundels which are the LO roundel with the station name in white text on the blue bar (like LU stations have). The examples show New Cross and Peckham Rye, so perhaps the intention is to eventually introduce roundels on the platforms and remove the long oblong signs we have at present.

Still doesn't explain the awful black text through. I'm now on a mission to find out!

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rbmartin


Posts: 802
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #158
29-04-2010 04:26 PM

blushingnail, I'm not surprised we're getting the awful black on orange signs as LOROL use it on the majority of their ex Silverlink stations which are owned by Network Rail but managed by LOROL which is the case of our stations.

It seems they can use station names on the roundel where TfL own the stations, such as Dalston Junction, Hoxton and the former ELL stations which were under LUL control.

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michael


Posts: 3,221
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #159
29-04-2010 04:30 PM

You need to look at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/c...ssue06.pdf for an example of the black text.

The reason is that in external spaces at night with slightly orange artificial lighting the white text is unreadable. It does look horrible with black text, but I don't think TfL have found a solution to this despite their highly skilled design department.

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blushingsnail


Posts: 364
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #160
29-04-2010 06:07 PM

Thanks Michael. Let's hope the fact that they're called 'temporary' signs means they'll eventually be replaced.

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