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East London Line
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michael


Posts: 3,221
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #101
22-02-2010 01:10 PM

Pstaveley,
Thanks for the update.
Do you know if, when we have the ELL from Forest Hil, I will be able to buy a single underground ticket from Forest Hill to Bond Street (via Canada Water), without having to pay extra for travelling on a line owned by Network Rail?

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Pstaveley


Posts: 24
Joined: Feb 2010
Post: #102
23-02-2010 01:52 AM

Firstly, the East London Line (south of New Cross Gate) is owned by Network Rail.

Secondly, you can buy a single ticket now.

The advantage of London Overground is that the fares will become the same as for the Underground. My guess is that the single fare (with an Oystercard) will reduce from 3.70 to 2.70 during the peak. However, that fare is not valid via London Bridge on Southern services.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #103
23-02-2010 02:22 PM

Quote:
the East London Line (south of New Cross Gate) is owned by Network Rail.


What will the child oyster fares be on the ELLX?

It is very confusing for children aged 5-10 at the moment.
Buses and underground are free as we know, but with the introduction of the oyster system on Southern, they have scrapped the simple 1 cap if travelling with an adult with a travel card.
You now need an Oyster photocard for each child and they also seem to be routinely charging 1.50 off peak. (I haven't precise details.)

Children currently travel free on London Overground at all times, so my expectation is that will also apply to the ELLX, and hopefully in turn Southern also drop their charges.[/quote]

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Pstaveley


Posts: 24
Joined: Feb 2010
Post: #104
23-02-2010 05:19 PM

As you quite rightly say children aged between 5 and 10 travel free on London Overground if they have a photo Oystercard. The same will apply on the East London Line because it is part of the London Overground network.

There is a map of the areas of free travel on National Rail in London. The West London Line has a parallel Southern service which is now free so I would expect that Southern services between West Croydon or Crystal Palace to New Cross Gate inclusive will also be free.

At this stage I would say that it is unlikely for there to be free travel between London Bridge and New Cross Gate and not between Crystal Palace and Norwood Junction.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #105
23-02-2010 10:38 PM

thanks Pstaveley

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rbmartin


Posts: 799
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #106
18-03-2010 01:12 PM

A look round some of the new stations north of New Cross Gate and the new ELL depot just outside NXG station.

http://londonreconnections.blogspot.com/

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Happysnapper


Posts: 93
Joined: Aug 2007
Post: #107
08-04-2010 01:36 PM
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Elizabeth25


Posts: 212
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #108
16-04-2010 12:00 PM

I saw on Twitter that the East London Line may go live on Monday. Anyone else heard this? Would it be the whole line?

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Pstaveley


Posts: 24
Joined: Feb 2010
Post: #109
16-04-2010 12:04 PM

Monday is the date that everyone is currently working towards. Hopefully I will know more later today.

Just to be clear the line will only open north of New Cross Gate (and presumably New Cross). The line will not open to West Croydon and Crystal Palace until 23 May.

Peter

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Elizabeth25


Posts: 212
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #110
16-04-2010 12:46 PM

Oh pooSad. However, I need to get to the Excel Centre on Wed. and Thurs. Shadwell is on the ELL and the DLR, right?

So I could jump on the ELL at NCG then switch to the DLR at Shadwell - that would work Thumbsup

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rbmartin


Posts: 799
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #111
16-04-2010 01:04 PM

If it opens next week of course. If you're using PAYG, you'd also save money by not going into Zone 1.

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Pstaveley


Posts: 24
Joined: Feb 2010
Post: #112
16-04-2010 04:45 PM

The above is correct. However, just to avoid confusion Shoreditch High Street is in Zone 1 so any journey north of there from South London will be charged as travelling through Zone 1.

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Foresters


Posts: 207
Joined: May 2006
Post: #113
16-04-2010 04:55 PM



True but, lest we forget, only because it was cynically re-zoned expressly to increase TFL revenue.

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Pstaveley


Posts: 24
Joined: Feb 2010
Post: #114
16-04-2010 04:59 PM

Sorry, that is incorrect. The zoning of Shoreditch High Street was a requirement of the DfT before it would provide TfL with the finance to build the line. TfL (admittedly under Ken Livingstone) wanted to keep Shoreditch High Street in Zone 2. I am not certain what Boris Johnson's would be, although that is academic due to the DfT requirement.

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rbmartin


Posts: 799
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #115
16-04-2010 05:07 PM

A FOI request made be a London Reconnections blogger tries to explain why Shoreditch High Street has been classified as a Zone 1 station.

http://londonreconnections.blogspot.com/...quest.html

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Foresters


Posts: 207
Joined: May 2006
Post: #116
16-04-2010 05:13 PM

Pstaveley Wrote:
Sorry, that is incorrect. The zoning of Shoreditch High Street was a requirement of the DfT before it would provide TfL with the finance to build the line. TfL (admittedly under Ken Livingstone) wanted to keep Shoreditch High Street in Zone 2. I am not certain what Boris Johnson's would be, although that is academic due to the DfT requirement.

Apologies, I'd mis-remembered... maybe it should have read:

True but, lest we forget, only because it was cynically re-zoned expressly to increase revenue on the East London Line.

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Pstaveley


Posts: 24
Joined: Feb 2010
Post: #117
16-04-2010 05:19 PM

Apologies accepted. However, even the correction could be misinterpreted. I like to point blame to the correct organisation, which might or might not help voters in the General Election Wink I would suggest that you meant the following:

True but, lest we forget, only because it was cynically re-zoned at the insistence of the DfT.

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rbmartin


Posts: 799
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #118
16-04-2010 05:25 PM

Is it also true that the only way that the line got this funding also was the the line had to become part of the National Rail network, which meant a private company (LOROL) would run the line (with TfL branding) instead of LUL?

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Pstaveley


Posts: 24
Joined: Feb 2010
Post: #119
16-04-2010 06:35 PM

Not really.

Even since the idea of the East London Line first surfaced (around 20 years ago) it has always been assumed that it would be part of the BR/National Rail network. Indeed when the Thames Tunnel was refurbished the structure gauge assumed it was a Networker.

When TfL was formed the proposal was given to TfL London Rail (which monitors National Rail services in Greater London). Therefore, it was totally natural that the extended East London Line would become part of London Overground rather than London Underground.

There are also umpteen technical reasons as to why it would have been very difficult for the line to be part of LUL and still run to Clapham Junction, Crystal Palace and West Croydon (and New Cross).

It should be remembered that LOROL runs a concession not a franchise. That means that LOROL have many KPIs (which are specified by TfL London Rail) that they must meet. The revenue risk is held by TfL London Rail not with LOROL.

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rbmartin


Posts: 799
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #120
16-04-2010 08:35 PM

Thanks for the information Peter.

Two very interesting comments on London Reconnections, which brings the whole Boris thing back into the spotlight.

http://tinyurl.com/y6wowgx

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