These timescales are interesting when compared to the Feb 09 Stakeholder Update which showed estimated timescales (admittedly for option 3).

There, the period between Mayor & Cabinet decision and appointment of principal contractor was either 11 months or 20 months if a design competition were to be held. The time from contractor appointment to pools opening was around 23 months. In both cases a public consultation was included in these timings.

Now (as per Satchers' post), the period between Mayor's decision and contractor appointment is 19 months and the time from contractor appointment to pools opening is curiously shorter at around 18 months.

So, does the long period before appointment of a contractor mean that there will be a design competition? If not, what would account for the 'extra' 8 months.

Or is it just me being hopelessly confused?

Interesting bit of analysis Foresters

The dates in the Feb 09 report were put together by Council Officers to try and demonstrate why they didn't want a design competition. Their no competition programme was completely undeliverable at the time and it is interesting that the with competition one wouldn't have set us further back that we are now. That lack of realism accounts for some of the missing 8 months....

....and the rest of the time was 'lost' between the Feb09 Mayor and Cabinet making a problematic decision and the July 09 Mayor and Cabinet deciding to go back to the Pools on Dartmouth Road.

I think they are being optimistic about the construction period (the 18 months) so that it can be 'open' before the end of 2012. In reality whilst they may have an idea of the construction period they would like it is normally up to the contractor to say how long they think they will need.

Does anyone new info on planned development of the pool? This seems to have gone a little quiet.

Next stakeholder meeting is 30 November. That would be the latest date we could expect an update.

The architects and engineers have now been appointed: Roberts Limbrick Ltd ( http://www.robertslimbrick.com/ ) are the architects. It is expected to take about 6 months to get a design which can be submitted as a planning application.

Cllr Philip Peake

Looks like they're based in Gloucester. They've been responsible for Central Park Leisure Centre, London Borough of Havering, Mile End Leisure Centre and Stoke Mandeville Stadium as well as the refurbishment of Kentish Town Sports Centre.

They also have experience of working with listed buildings as they converted the Grade II* Listed De Havilland Comet Hangar, into reputedly Europe's largest Health and Racquets Club including full tennis and fitness facilities, NGC's HQ offices and Academy Lodge.

While I'd have loved to see a true competition, I'll be interested to see what they come up with.

Ohh, they are good.

I remember the plans for the Kentish Town baths, what they have on the website looks great. Good choice Lewisham, good choice!

Personally, I think it's a shame we got a little glimpse of what an Allies & Morrison pool would've looked like. Shame they didn't get the job. But good luck to the chosen architects. Some of their stuff looks OK. Full steam ahead

Further infor from Lewisham's website

At the end of November we understand that the Council will be inviting the project stakeholders and local reps to meet the new architects and design team for the Pools Project. We are hoping that this workshop/meeting can be used to ensure the project brief meets the requirements of a variety of pool users.

Now broadly the project brief is set (e.g. 2 pools, keep superintendents house, make new open space, cafe, community space, gym and studio's) and we understand the work going forward will be 'based' on the Allies and Morrison Option 2 scheme. It is true that there does not seem to be a lot of space on the site or in the budget to add many 'extra' facilities.

However, as part of this it would be helpful if we could have some input into what would make the project work for you (assuming you are a pools or leisure user or might use the building with someone that is?)?

For example:
- which aspects of other pools developments do you like or dislike e.g. the acoustics at Downham are generally thought to be poor and the pools are noisy, against those at Beckenham Spa, where the small pool is separated from the main pool by a glass screen? What are your pet hates about swimming pools (my personal pet hate is why the showers are always so few, so hot and so rubbish!)?

- Where have they got the changing areas right? What sort of changing rooms do you prefer e.g. a mix of cubicles as part of a 'changing village', or more separate sex changing areas?

- How important is it to be able to spectate the swimming either as part of events or for parents of small children in swimming lessons? Would you prefer to spectate from the cafe, or a separate seating area?

- How well integrated does the gym and other 'dry' leisure facilities need to be? Could this be quite separate or would it be better if they were all quite 'visible'?

Any thoughts on this, ideally constructive, would be appreciated.
FH Soc rep on stakeholder group

Glad to see we have the biggest thread.
Is this the biggest thread ever on the forum?

Separate sex changing rooms with cubicles are essential - and a women only swimming session. I wouldn't use a gym so can't comment on that but I am looking forward to being able to swim again.
I used to go every Saturday to swim, then go to Sainsbury's then walk home. I am greatly looking forward to being able to swim again - I have been trying to run a bit since the pools shut but don't enjoy it as much so have increased in weight unfortunately.

Ive recently been using the facilities at our national aquatic centre (Crystal Palace) after enjoying summer swimming at the fantastic Brockwell Lido, and compared with the facilites at Ladywell which is what I had to endure before this for winter swimming, it is a dream. Large clean changing rooms, not crowded or full of teenages standing at each end and good showers and of course a 50m pool - and off peak its more than a quid cheaper per person. (and its only 5kms/3mi away if you fancy running there too Brockly_Babe)

The new pools will be far handier for me, but it is imperative that they have clear timetables, a website that is actually updated (Crystal Palace is great for that) and staff that know what is happening. So many times Ive got on the bus to Ladywell only to find that the staff member who told me lane swimming was supposed to be on over the phone, was wrong and there are no lanes and 1000 kids splashing each other in the shallow end.

".............(and its only 5kms/3mi away if you fancy running there too Brockly_Babe)"
3 miles from where? It takes me half an hour to walk to Forest Hill Pools - I may get the 122 bus and try Chrystal Palace pool though - thanks for the info.

I can't agree about single sex changing. I think a 'village' is far better* and less ominous than the hidden enclaves of the single sex arrangements.

*with cubicles of course

A mixed sauna & steam room also - not hidden away in changing rooms but accessible from both wet, dry and gym sides.

'Visible', Satchers, in all aspects I believe is for the good - less propensity for the temptation for youngsters to misbehave - and a better feeling of (and actual, if staffing is appropriate) security.

Sorry, from the current site/Dartmouth Road. You're right though - the 122 is a good option.

I was nervously considering a post asking if anyone had a progress report on the pools, then I came across an A5 flyer in the Jolly Bee (tucked under the bread roll dispenser) last night with news of...

Forest Hill Local Assembly on Monday 1 February 2010 at the Living Springs International Church, 8-10 Devonshire Road, London SE23 3TJ.

The flyer shows an agenda including:

• present design options for the new pools

Great, thanks Foresters.... I haven't heard about this... and was beginning to wonder too...

Thanks Foresters - will def try to attend this if I can.

By the way, on a related note, I've only just read some of the suggestions re 'single sex' changing rooms. I can understand that having some 'family-friendly' changing areas would be useful (mainly so that parents can get changed together with their children of the opposite sex).

However, can we please, please try to steer away from only having mixed sex changing rooms? Personally I'd feel very uncomfortable changing in a 'male' changing area, especially in the evening if few other women were around, and it would probably put me off using the swimming pool altogether. I'm sure other women would feel the same and I imagine that some people (both men and women) would be totally unable to accept the idea (eg, for religious reasons). Plus the idea of young girls getting changed in 'mixed' changing rooms also doesn't seem safe at all. I know that there would be cubicles but that wouldn't really give me enough comfort and I imagine it would be easy enough for the cubicles to be 'misused' by lovefueled teenagers, etc etc. Also, often with children it's easier to get changed in the main area rather than stuck in a dark cubicle.

I'm sure I seem very old-fashioned in my views for saying this, but the idea of mixed changing areas just doesn't appeal to me at all. Does anyone else feel like this?

I agree with you - I stopped using a leisure centre oop North because they introduced a unisex "changing village". There was a separate male only changing area for the gym - but due to staff shortages (?) this was closed. Obviously it was cheaper just to keep the one changing room open.

The solution, surely, would be to have separate male and female adults only changing rooms (even if this reduces the space available) - and also separate children and families changing area where you must either be a child or accompany one to enter.