It is very unfortunate when human beings are dehumanised through the use of terms such as 'rubbish' and 'undesirables'. These are children who may not have all the advantages of 'nice people' and it is well documented that the most significant factor in educational success is one's family's socio-economic status. It is particularly sad that schools refer to children in this way and suggests that there is no real attempt in some cases to redress the life chances of individual children.

It is perfectly reasonable for people to inform themselves about the achievements of schools and opportunities offered to children, and anyone would sensibly be wary of a school that advertises police presence or behaviour management as key elements in attracting prospective pupils rather the education that is on offer.

Whether a school is suitable may often be quite individual and parents understandably worry about this a great deal. The issues can be discussed without rubbishing children who have an equal right to a good education and taking a 'them' and 'us' type stance.

Thanks everyone. I'll be looking at Cator Park and although our first choice would be co-ed, I'm certainly going to check out Sydenham girls as well.

I went to a 'good' girls grammar (not in London) which became co-ed a few years after I started. It had been a college for young ladies before becoming a grammar and still had a sizeable private prep department. It was fairly mixed socially with good results overall but with quite a few low achievers- or probably more correctly bright but non-academic pupils who were put in to the lower streams. It was reportedly the best school in the area and the one where the socially astute (ie snobbish parents) wanted to go to.
I was an 11 plus entrant. My experience was mixed. There were other girls there from better off families who chose not to do any work probably because they knew they didnt have to and could walk into their parents businesses at 18. It was those girls (including the daughter of a chief police inspector) who bullied much younger girls and actually beat them up now and then and got them to sit on hot radiators until they screamed in pain and were badly burnt. They were allowed to do this because everyone else was too scared to report them or they felt that no one would believe them. The school caretaker kept some small animals as school pets. They were killed one day by some of the pupils- 4th and 5th form middle class girls- in a pretty dreadful manner. If this was in south London it would have got in the paper and the police would have been called, but at my school apart from a general dressing down in assembly it was brushed under the carpet because of who the parents were and the fact that the school didn't want the publicity.These kids were in the minority but there were enough of them to cause problems for the rest of us who knew we had to make the best of the few opportunities we had to get good results and go to university. That is now the scenario I would like to avoid my own children having to face and prefer to see a culture of respect and discipline rather than necessarily being with the ' right people'.

My view therefore of 'behaviour' is that class, background and the level of pupils intelligence are not always the best indicators of a good school experience and that a ' rotten intake' can take many forms. I regularly witness Dulwich College kids and James Allens in public and really would not want my children to be within a mile of those schools, even if we could afford it, as I just don't rate the sort of people they turn out although I suspect that thats as much down to the parents as the school, but still , its not a great advertisement.

Michaels point about school improvement partners and working with them as parents to constantly improve is very sound as this partnership is key to the success of any school. I just hope that this current government does not end up turning the clock back on education which has come a long way over the last decade or so- if anyone is interested have a look at the Local Schools Network website and join in the debate on education in the UK and current policy.

Interesting post roz. I thought your school sounded like my old one until I got to the second paragraph! The burns from radiators/small animals stories are horrific. Very true that a school's social status is not a good indicator of its educational or moral values......

We don't have children (voluntarily) but I get the impression that an awful lot of middle-class parents leave London when their kids are coming up for secondary school.

I hope readers of this forum who have, or have had, children at any of these schools have taken note of these comments and feel suitably chastened.

Interesting post by Roz re Alleyns and DC I have to regularly suffer Dulwich college, Alleyns and JAGS school children getting on 'my' P4 bus at school kick out time and in my opinion they are unruley, rude , arrogent and would never give up a seat when needed. However in contrast Kingsdale pupils are so well behaved and polite young people to the extent that I recently e mailed the Head to pass on my congratulations to the young pupils for their good behaviour.

It maybe helpful to know that Sydenham girls have just lost their Head so their future is a little uncertain.

I wouldn't right off Prendergast Ladywell Fields school as the school has certainly improved since it was taken over by Prendergast Federation. They have a very robust new Head and executive Head and have made a lot of improvements to the school in the past year. It's intake has also improved and last year they took in their full compliment of Band 1's for the first time. It's worth considering and making a visit to make up your own mind, which I can't say for some of the other Lewisham schools. I live near the school and have not had any trouble from them and found the Head very proactive and very friendly. Even the local shopkeepers have noticed a big change in the chidren's behaviour in their shops.

Kingsdale is also worth a visit if you can see through the hard sell. The exam issue has not yet been resolved and nothing may come of it. I expect there will be some spaces come Sept for your child because of the news though.

''Ladywell Fields is unlikely to improve,''


Hah! Don't believe everything people tell you. It's results just went up by 11%.

Thanks everyone for the advice. We've been offered a place at Haberdashers Aske Hatcham College which we accepted.