Fair enough, the thread has gone off at a tangent. But each post was a logical reply to the one preceding it.

If you want to bring it sharply back to the subject of the BNP alone fine. Its always worth highlighting the immense suffering and outright murder that socialism in all its forms wreaked in the last century, but your right it is off tangent...

Nevertheless, the point about the BNP being left wing still holds true. Indeed, anyone on the internet is at most a few seconds away from the BNP manifesto of 'today' with its command and control style economy, it's procetctionism of international trade, its restrictions on personal freedoms, all left wing policies.

Yet still people call them far-right, what a misleading term when they are obviously nowhere near the values of the right of personal freedoms and economic freedom. Far left is far more accurate. Or as Lord Tebbit accurately called them, 'Labour with racism', so apt when you look at those areas in the country where they win seats, i.e old Labour heartlands.

A little off topic but I have to say that probably perversely, I am looking forward to seeing these (BNP) people try and prove logicality and reason in their views. There was a programme on last night about BNP wives etc. It was hard to watch but I did and took great comfort that at the end of the day, these people especially those who stand for public office and hold senior status in the BNP, cannot string a sentence together, and cannot make a coherent case for their beliefs. It was laughable. They were laughable, almost comic characters if the subject matter were not so serious. So do they really deserve our fear as much as they do?

The other thing I thought was in the last few days I have attended two really good hospitals for treatment, Kings and Moorfields. I would like to ask Mr Griffin who will be staffing these hospitals if all these highly qualified, professional, and experienced people of colour and of various ethnic origins are 'sent home'. Who does he think has been propping up the NHS for the last 60 years or so? For years they couldn't recruit from the white British population, now they can't appoint from same when better qualified candidates can be recruited from overseas. So, is our future hospitals with no staff, or staff with the moral work and service ethics of Bob Crow?

One of the chief tenets of BNP ideology is holocaust denial a specialty of Mr Griffin. I think that equates them more than adequately with Nazi ideology. Someone who denies the Holocaust and so blatantly describes it as the Holohoax should not be able to stand for election in the UK. That I think is the point that needs to be addressed and which has been so shamefully neglected. Lets get this at least sorted out in any forthcoming parliamentary and electoral reform.

And please lets stop trying to find reason or to comparatively analyse Nazi ideology. That was really all about an egotistical madman exploiting a collapsing economy and collapsing morale and identity for his own ends. He invented his own Germany and the people fell for it. It doesn't matter what -ism was attached to it at the time- he made all that up too.

In practice, some corporations did very well under the Nazis:

link

link2

It is possibly not the point you were making, Dan, but in practice, capitalism did flourish in all its 'glory' under the nazis. Any socialism was a poor second to the main nationalism/race agenda, imo.

I think it fair to say Hitler and the nazis are the BNP's unofficial inspiration, and if they too were to come to power, we would not be living in a socialist wonderland.

Are we are discussing Gordon Brown now, that's also off-topic!

To the best of my knowledge, Gordon hasn't committed mass murder.
I wonder how many Germans got the chance to vote out Hitlers Government once it seized power....
A little different I think.

Perryman, I would caution you against assuming that big business is capitalist. They are corporatist and given half a chance monopolist. This is always at the expense of smaller businesses.

Corporatism is about big business doing deals with government to promote each other?s agenda. That?s a long way from capitalism. It necessitates changing the law to push out growing businesses. It?s not so marked over here, but you only have to look at the US where there is a ton of big business money at Washington trying to engender helpful law?s through lobbyists.

As a side note, Henry Ford was a very unpleasant man. Although I really don?t know anything about the deals GM where doing at the time.


Back on-topic, before I get told off by baboonery again. I like roz?s comments on the BNP members being unable to string a sentence together. Indeed, I would love it if we had the BNP regularly grilled in the media rather than martyred by it. If you put the BNP on a program like question time you could quickly expose their evil and incoherence. Indeed, according to the rules of QT they are obliged to invite them now they have MEP?s. It should be interesting, and I for one look forward to them being thoroughly shown up on it.

Dan and Roz are quite correct the mainstream parties should discuss
with BNP people rather than childishly walk away.
That may have been acceptable when they had no seats but now it is an insult to their constituents of whatever party.

As for the comment that they cannot string two words together have you been on a bus recently.

I can never forgive them if they deny the holocaust. I cannot undertstand how they can do this the evidence seems overwhelming.

I'm afraid discussion wasn't really what I had in mind Brian- I'm not that generous. I'm not trying to legitimise them just because they snatched a few seats here and there. I just think their views won't and don't hold water or stand up to argument on say Question Time so the sooner more people realise this the better. Undeniably a lot of people will suffer in between but I think the exposure can only wittle away at their power base. Of course I could be wrong but thats my theory anyway.

Roz
I think we both feel the same way about BNP just disagree about how to react to them.
When I saw all the other politicians walking of the stage when the Euro Elections declared and BNP candidate walked on I thought was this wise.
I believe we should use every opportunity to tackle them on their policies.
As I have mentioned before I cannot help thinking the mainstream parties are often the biggest recruitement sargeant for the BNP when they refuse to discuss such subjects as immigration. Is is NOT racist to want a reduction on immigration especially with rising unemployment but the main parties tend to slander views such as that as racist and refuse to discuss them. The main stream parties must take this on board otherwise more people especially young unemployed will swell the ranks of the BNP and God Forbid that would happen