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The Blitz - Printable Version

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The Blitz - bigbadwolf - 03-03-2008 01:56 PM

This is a long shot but was anyone in Forest hill during ww2 and if so what was it like, where were the shelters and were any significant buildings or anyones house hit by a bomb and how did those who chose to stay adapt to life under the blitz? Was there a home guard or any anti-aircraft guns stationed in se23? Any aircraft come down in the area or aircrew bail out over Forest hill and if so were they captured?


RE: The Blitz - shzl400 - 03-03-2008 03:38 PM

I have a map of all bomb damage in the area - in fact there is a weighty tome with maps for the whole of London. Should be available at local history section in Lewisham Library.

One of the major buildings that bought it was on the site of the now Fairlawn School - rocket strike, I think from memory.


RE: The Blitz - brian - 03-03-2008 03:41 PM

I was not born until 49 but have heard many stories from older people.. The first place to be bombed in SE23/26 was the Deutsche Lutheran Kirche in Dacres Road.
It is still easy to see where many of the bombs fell by looking for the occasional newer house amongst pre 39 houses.
I agree very interesting. There are many books I believe about this subject.
Main target in our area was of course the railway tracks


RE: The Blitz - robwinton - 03-03-2008 04:24 PM

Apparently the roof (balcony) of the Capitol was used by the wardens to keep an eye out for fires and bombs - not a great job standing out there during the raids.

I think the gun emplacement on One Tree Hill is WW1 rather than 2 (or did I dream that?)

Not much else to add except I think that one of the houses on Waldram Park Road was hit and rather than replace it, a through road to Rockbourne was added (plus the smaller houses along that road)


RE: The Blitz - Triangle - 03-03-2008 04:53 PM

I was once told by my mum that Fairlawn School was built on the site of the Burmah Oil Company.

Out of curiosity I just did a search on the internet and found that a patent was applied for in Dec 1937 by the Burmah Oil Company and a Mr Charles Robinson Scott Harley of "Fairlawn", Honor Oak Road, Forest Hill, London, SE23. The patent was for improvements in the refining of Paraffin Wax and was accepted on June 16th 1939.

Seems likely that it was the Burmah Oil Comapany building that was destroyed by the rocket strike in Honor Oak Road. I would guess it was sometime nearer the end of the war.


RE: The Blitz - BT - 03-03-2008 05:14 PM

And of course Forest Hill Station was bombed.


RE: The Blitz - NewForester - 03-03-2008 05:35 PM

Not sure where this leaves the Burmah Oil Company, but ...

Quote:
St Paul's, Forest Hill, which no longer exists, was a huge building in Waldenshaw Road, where an infants' school now stands next to the supermarket car park. It was demolished following bomb damage in the Second World War. The congregation took over a congregational church in Taymount Rise, but that was closed ten years ago and the parish amalgamated with Christ Church (on Church Rise, which has just been converted into flats).



Forest hill station was also hit by a flying bomb in 1944, although the current one was not built until the 1970s.

and then there's this story about another doodlebug hitting Fermor / Marler Rd.

If you want to investigate further, then the Imperial War Musuem has got information where every bomb fell in London, and is a very good venue for researching information about the war. They have a huge photographic collection of bomb incidents in South London.

Maybe Steve Grinlay can add some more information


RE: The Blitz - shzl400 - 03-03-2008 05:51 PM

NewForester Wrote:
Not sure where this leaves the Burmah Oil Company, but ...

Quote:
St Paul's, Forest Hill, which no longer exists, was a huge building in Waldenshaw Road, where an infants' school now stands next to the supermarket car park. It was demolished following bomb damage in the Second World War.


That's the nursery annexe to Fairlawn - quite separate - the main Fairlawn School is up Forest Hill Road, opposite the Christian Fellowship Centre.


RE: The Blitz - bigbadwolf - 03-03-2008 06:20 PM

Forest hill and Catford were strafed (shot at by warplanes in 1943) incuding Dunoon rd why a women had a narrow escape. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/77/a6990177.shtml


RE: The Blitz - Sherwood - 03-03-2008 10:54 PM

I think Kilmorie School was hit by a bomb.


RE: The Blitz - davidl - 04-03-2008 05:02 PM

Apparently a flying bomb (V1/V2?) caused some damage at the top of Bovill Road - would be interested to hear if anyone has any more details than this.


RE: The Blitz - Les - 04-03-2008 06:20 PM

This website is well researched for V1 and V2 strikes, but SE23 info is limited.

http://www.flyingbombsandrockets.com/V1_summary.html


RE: The Blitz - roz - 05-03-2008 10:32 AM

I believe that the part of Perry Vale where Christchurch school and playground now stands was bombed, hence the post -war school development and what I think are early 50's houses. I used to live opposite and heard this from some of the older tenants in our block, some of whom are now well in their 80's and lived there all their lives. Again I believe the real target was the railway track.


RE: The Blitz - robwinton - 05-03-2008 10:47 AM

Fairlawn, Kilmorie, Christchurch ...

That a lot of schools to be bombed. Anyone check the alibis of all the students? I sense a pattern (cue dramatic music)


RE: The Blitz - roz - 05-03-2008 11:10 AM

I don't think they were schools at the time!


RE: The Blitz - bennyken - 05-03-2008 04:20 PM

The bottom end of Fermor Rd and the corner of Marler Road where the two meet was all destroyed. You can clearly see the extent of the damaged area as there are a large number of newer houses at this end of the street rather than the surrounding Victorian properties. I live near the corner of Fermor Rd on Marler Rd in a Victorian terrace and you can clearly see where the backs of our house and those next to us have had their back walls repaired and new roofs following the damage. Must have damaged quite an area - as detailed in the testimony mentioned by NewForester above. The testimony comes from a guy who lived just across the road from us. So I presume that if he lost all his windows and roof our house (being slightly nearer to the blast) would have been badly damaged too. You can see some blast/ shrapnel damage to the front of our house also.


RE: The Blitz - shzl400 - 05-03-2008 08:38 PM

shzl400 Wrote:
I have a map of all bomb damage in the area - in fact there is a weighty tome with maps for the whole of London. Should be available at local history section in Lewisham Library.


This is the book I was talking about http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4655437.stm

I cannot unearth, under my piles of paperwork the copies I took of the FH/HOP area, but will keep trying....


RE: The Blitz - shzl400 - 05-03-2008 11:38 PM

Aha! Found it!! Can anyone advise on whether there are any copyright implications of posting a scan of it here? It's one page that covers the railway line from roughly HOP to FH and a bit further south, plus a chunk east and west of that. The damage seems to be mainly from V1 rocket strikes - there are about eight just in this area, plus one V2. Maybe, if there is a copyright problem, I can PM the scan to anyone who is seriously interested.


RE: The Blitz - Allotment_man - 06-03-2008 12:20 AM

Houses on Honor Oak Park where bombed in ww2, on the site of two of them and thier gardens (1 of them the vicarage) , Walters Way the self build site now resides.


RE: The Blitz - admin - 06-03-2008 08:46 AM

shzl400 Wrote:
Can anyone advise on whether there are any copyright implications of posting a scan of it here?

Please email the scan (see Contact page) with book details, and we'll check.


RE: The Blitz - Londondrz - 06-03-2008 09:47 AM

If you google microsoft map, enter se23 as a postcode the satellite views give a very good indication of where sticks of bombs fell in SE23. I am interested because of a stick that fell from Honour Oak road down through Waldenshaw Road and beyond destroying the church on Waldenshaw Road (now the Fairlawn Primary annex). It is quite visual given the differing ages of the houses affected.


RE: The Blitz - Ciej - 06-03-2008 11:20 AM

I am a lawyer and studied copyright law at university.

There should be no problem with posting a one page scan to this site. If the copyright holder complains, all you have to do is take it down.


RE: The Blitz - Triangle - 06-03-2008 11:39 AM

Les Wrote:
This website is well researched for V1 and V2 strikes, but SE23 info is limited.

http://www.flyingbombsandrockets.com/V1_summary.html


Yes, it's curious that rocket strikes in surrounding SE post codes are well documented on the above site but there is absolutely nothing for SE23. I'm personally aware that a V1 fell on One Tree Hill.


RE: The Blitz - Londondrz - 06-03-2008 11:41 AM

Try http://www.flyingbombsandrockets.com/web_content_dulwich.html


RE: The Blitz - jalapeno - 06-03-2008 12:46 PM

I remember reading about a tram which was hit by a bomb on London Road not far from The Horniman during WW2. Several people were killed. My neighbours had lent me a local history book. I will have to ask them to borrow it again.


RE: The Blitz - Triangle - 06-03-2008 03:58 PM

Londondrz Wrote:


Thanks. According to this site, the nearest to One Tree Hill was when a V1 came down in Camberwell Cemetery (SE22) with no casualties.

However, I'm pretty sure one came down actually in One Tree Hill because I know that the casualty who survived (my dad) was walking his dog on the Hill at the time and he subsequently spent three months in hospital recovering from shrapnel wounds.

I guess the Imperial War Museum might be the place to properly check this out.


RE: The Blitz - NewForester - 06-03-2008 04:26 PM

That site shows 29 missiles hit Forest Hill, killing 56 people.


RE: The Blitz - Londondrz - 06-03-2008 04:37 PM

The main library in Lewisham has the origional "bomb book" which outlines where bombs, V1's and V2's landed and damage caused.


RE: The Blitz - baggydave - 06-03-2008 06:23 PM

The posh estate had a smattering with at least one semi totally destroyed and roofs and ceilings damaged. If you look from the rear of our properties you see patches of different coloured roof tiles, which I have always wondered were due to bomb damage. Ceilings are also made of fibreboard, rather than lath and plaster, which someone suggested again could have been due to bomb damage due to a shortage of the usual materials to repair celings. There is also apparently one house with a bit of bomb still embedded in it. When houses were rebuilt after the war, they followed the same design, odd as now they would of course try to build totally different.


RE: The Blitz - shzl400 - 07-03-2008 10:54 AM

Ta-Dah!!

(sorry, couldn't get it to stay rotated!)


RE: The Blitz - milliebear - 07-03-2008 11:13 AM

I know a bomb came down on Stillness Road - number 49/51 I believe


RE: The Blitz - Londondrz - 07-03-2008 11:49 AM

Brilliant!!!!! Can you post the map that shows the page to the left?


RE: The Blitz - admin - 07-03-2008 12:15 PM

Book details re bomb map above:
London County Council Bomb Damage Maps 1939-45 (Hardcover) by Ann Saunders (Editor), Robin Woolven (Introduction), pub. Dec 2005.


RE: The Blitz - steveb - 07-03-2008 12:29 PM

I've also got a copy of the bomb damage maps, and they confirm all the V1 incidents mentioned in these posts: One Tree Hill, Bovill Road, Fermor Road/Marler road, Fairlawn and the Station/Perry Vale .

From what I have read, SE London suffered from V1 attacks because it was on the flight path from their launch bases in northern France to London and they often fell short. Don't think they were capable of being specifically targeted.

For those who want to read more, I'd particularly recommend "Red Alert" by Lewis Blake. It is a detailed account of the bombing in SE London. There are copies at all the local libraries.


RE: The Blitz - Sherwood - 07-03-2008 12:38 PM

Our Government (Bless them!) deliberately engineered the shortfall.
To protect central London, they gave false information about the bombs that landed (i.e. said they had landed north of London) and tricked the Germans into shortening the range.


RE: The Blitz - milliebear - 07-03-2008 01:52 PM

Also I am sure I picked up a book years ago in one of the local charity shops which detailed all the WW2 bombs & damage in Lewisham giving all the bombing dates and casualty numbers. It may still be at home somewhere so I will try and find it. I remember it, as there was a particulary horribly incident of a bomb landing on one of the junior schools in the area where a load of the children died.


RE: The Blitz - shzl400 - 07-03-2008 01:54 PM

Londondrz Wrote:
Brilliant!!!!! Can you post the map that shows the page to the left?


Sorry, I only copied the one page that I was interested in i.e with my house on it (the whole street is totally white on the map - phew!). Apologies for being so selfish! I hadn't anticipated the wider interest at that time.....


RE: The Blitz - PVP - 07-03-2008 02:00 PM

Wow, look at all the nice big detatched houses on Perry Vale.


RE: The Blitz - vipes - 07-03-2008 02:10 PM

I understood that rather than targetting East and South East London, German bombers had to jettison unused bombs having completed their raids in order to lighten the load enough to make it home.


RE: The Blitz - Sherwood - 07-03-2008 02:26 PM

I think they came up the river to the east end.
I think Sandhurst primary School was bombed deliberately in the mistaken belief that it was Sandhurst Military Academy.


RE: The Blitz - Triangle - 07-03-2008 02:50 PM

milliebear Wrote:
Also I am sure I picked up a book years ago in one of the local charity shops which detailed all the WW2 bombs & damage in Lewisham giving all the bombing dates and casualty numbers. It may still be at home somewhere so I will try and find it. I remember it, as there was a particulary horribly incident of a bomb landing on one of the junior schools in the area where a load of the children died.


Yes, although not in SE23 this horrible incident was probably Sandhurst Road School, SE6 which was bombed in 1943, killing 38 children and 6 members of staff. There is a mass grave for the victims in Hither Green Cemetery.


RE: The Blitz - milliebear - 07-03-2008 03:09 PM

I am not sure what you meant by post the map (or indeed whether it was meant for me) but here is a plan of the site.

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=536459&y=174023&z=0&sv=se23+1ng&st=2&pc=se23+1ng&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf


RE: The Blitz - steveb - 07-03-2008 07:10 PM

Sherwood Wrote:
I think Sandhurst primary School was bombed deliberately in the mistaken belief that it was Sandhurst Military Academy.


All that I have read suggests the bombing was deliberate. The pilot was quoted at the time as saying that he knew what the target was. The incident also caused a lot of controversey because the anti-aircraft defences were out of action at the time.


RE: The Blitz - Sherwood - 07-03-2008 11:19 PM

The bombing was quite deliberate. There were Canadian troops billeted in the area around the school and military vehicles (fire engines) were parked in the school playground. This probably convinced the German Intelligence that it was actually a military target. It was the only school in London bombed during daylight. If schools were bombed during the night the children would not have been there. The Germans stated after the raid that they had bombed their target.
It is curious that the aeroplanes were able to penetrate so far inland. But I suspect that the authorities were not prepared for the unexpected.


RE: The Blitz - Toffeejim - 08-03-2008 06:54 PM

Shake 'n vac mountain made from fibreboard eh? I suppose if it is that much of a pre-fab estate it would have been cheap and fast to just build more of the same after the war. A shame though that we're all still having to live with the architectural consequences 60 years later. In the fine city from which I hail we knocked down places like this in the 60's and 70's.


RE: The Blitz - Londondrz - 08-03-2008 07:49 PM

Sorry Milliebear I meant this map. Are you able to post up the left page for me?


RE: The Blitz - hornimaniac - 12-01-2009 07:27 PM

I stumbled across these links today (as well as this post):

LLC maps of bomb damage assessment around Forest Hill
http://www.flickr.com/photos/yersinia/3061328430/sizes/o/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/yersinia/3053049884/sizes/o/

The index and colour key to the LLC maps
http://www.flickr.com/photos/yersinia/2948640929/in/set-72157609792324937/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/yersinia/sets/72157609792324937/

V2 rocket sites mapped
http://londonist.com/2009/01/london_v2_rocket_sitesmapped.php

There are a few circles on these maps supposedly indicating V1 or V2 rocket strikes.


RE: The Blitz - stevegrindlay - 12-01-2009 09:34 PM

The resolution isn't as high as it might be, so I've uploaded the relevant maps from my copy of the book. I'd previously been reluctant because I was unsure about copyright issues.

This is the link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevegrindlay/sets/72157612445257235/

There is also a key that explains the significance of the colouring and circles. Be aware, though, that downloading the images at original size might be slow.


RE: The Blitz - dovetail - 13-01-2009 10:31 PM

Thanks to Hornimaniac and Steve, I was able to find my house on Steve's maps. I was told by neighbours when I moved in, that it had suffered bad bomb damage (confirmed by the purple on the map). Luckily the previous owners, two sisters, were unhurt. The house was rebuilt after the war ended with, I suspect, whatever materials was salvaged from other sites as some of the architectural features in the house were a bit incongruous...


RE: The Blitz - stevegrindlay - 21-01-2009 05:18 PM

I've been asked to upload the maps showing bomb damage towards Honor Oak Park and parts of Stanstead Road. If anybody is interested in areas I have missed, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

As a reminder, this is the link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevegrindlay/sets/72157612445257235/


The Blitz - Ciej - 21-01-2009 09:19 PM

These maps are great. Is there a map that shows Derby Hill / Derby Hill Crescent? If it isn't too much trouble I would love to see that.


RE: The Blitz - hoppy - 21-01-2009 09:42 PM

And any of HOP Steve if you have them.
Thanks


RE: The Blitz - hoppy - 21-01-2009 09:45 PM

oops. just found it


RE: The Blitz - stevegrindlay - 22-01-2009 03:27 PM

Ciej Wrote:
Is there a map that shows Derby Hill / Derby Hill Crescent?


It was a little tricky as Derby Hill extends across two maps. This is the best I can manage:



The LCC used the 1916 OS maps to mark bomb damaged buildings, updating the maps as necessary. Thus the original Derby Hill, off Dartmouth Road in the right hand image, was on the original while the 1930s extension (on the left hand map) is pencilled in. Derby Hill Crescent isn't marked at all, perhaps because there was no bomb damage there.


RE: The Blitz - spenso - 30-11-2009 07:04 PM

Have you anymore info on the bomb that fell on Camberwell Cementary? my grandfather was buried there in 1937,near one tree hill.The cementary have no info on a bomb site,but his head stone is missing with a lot of others on a plot of land now flat .
Many thanks Tim


RE: The Blitz - NewForester - 30-11-2009 10:26 PM

Guess not - file was too big to attach.

Try this link instead
http://i49.tinypic.com/34jak9h.png


RE: The Blitz - steveb - 01-12-2009 03:26 PM

From the map, the bomb was a V1 flying bomb. So a pretty big explosion.


RE: The Blitz - ukulele_lady - 29-06-2011 06:44 AM

I was shown a map of all the bomb damage caused during WW2 and it's seye opening. The railway line going through Lordship lane was hit as well as Forest Hill station. Plus, two V2s hit either side of Taymount Grange. It's a bizarre sight to behold... the outline of Taymount Grange with two large circles either side of it marking where bombs narrowly missed it


RE: The Blitz - goff38 - 10-07-2011 08:46 PM

The area just beside Honor Oak Pk station was occupied by Wells Fireworks,then the golf course and further up Victory gardens and at One Tree Hill,a Search Light Battery held pride of place.After the school at Hither Green was bombed the plane then flew down Lessing St. and machine-gunned my mother,myself and Maureen Tulley,(we were on our way home from school,Stillness Infants) mum grabbed us and tossed us in a doorway.I was told the RAF got him 2 wks later. We lived at 286 Devonshire Rd untill a V2 flattened the area of Boveny opposite,and were then relocated to Woolstone Rd as our roof was damaged.Sometime after VE Day we moved back.The area along the railway was one of our playgrounds and was source of Slow-worms and Grass-snakes(I gave my two to the Horniman vivarium when it opened).
















deov


RE: The Blitz - BoMo - 09-10-2015 01:54 PM

This is a long dormant thread, but thought people might be interested to know that the London bomb damage maps (including the ones covering SE23) have been reprinted in an expensive but beautiful coffee table book having been previously very hard to get hold of - http://www.amazon.co.uk/London-County-Council-Damage-1939-1945/dp/0500518254
Just been flicking through in Daunt Books and well worth a look for anyone interested in the local history.


RE: The Blitz - Erekose - 13-10-2015 09:17 PM

Thanks for pointing this out. My copy arrived today and its fascinating looking over the maps and relating this to the streetscape in various parts of the city. From a well known online retailer it's 2/3 of the cover price.