A very sensible petition exists at
http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/ac...l-decision asking the Dept of Health to accept the judge's ruling and not to appeal, so that we have a clear and secure future for services at Lewisham Hospital.
Oh, and the appeal will fail, the legal position is really very clear.
There's something about the tone of the petition I'm not 100% comfortable with - but the more important issue is that we have to prevent the Department of Health simply trying to outspend us on the appeal. So I've signed.
Just curious Mr_Numbers, what is wrong with the tone?
Perhaps it is this:
If the High Court judgement were to be overturned, no hospital anywhere in the country would be safe from closure.
I think that the judge expressed this same concern rather superbly in his judgement (see clause 134).
Having said all that the government could just drop the four tests. They have arguably run out of time to consult on closing Lewisham by any other means though...
So any appeal must surely be a waste of money - I have signed too.
It's hard to put my finger on but yes, that sentence does rather make a severe accusation against the government that we are trying to persuade. I thought it was just a little bit triumphalist ("Justice has been done") and rubbing salt in the wound ("The decision ... was completely flawed and has now been found unlawful.")
I think I would have made more of the clarity and lack of equivocation in the judgment, implying that there are unlikely to win on appeal but merely cause (as the petition rightly points out) damaging uncertainty and anxiety.
But I don't want to bang on about this - the most important thing is that yet another 250 people have signed since I first saw (and signed) the petition this morning.
Ok thanks, fair points and you are right, better to focus on the signatures.
i wouldnt worry too much about the wording - senior politicians are quite happy to ignore petitions, protest, marches, etc. the 38degrees petition that raised money for the legal campaign is something different though, and well done them for that.
i have no faith in "persuading" the torys from acting differently - their agenda is set in stone. were it not for the authority of the judge the closures wouldve gone through, i hope i can persuade you of that.
Well done to all involved from those that signed the petitions to those that marched and those that ran the legal campaign
Oh, and the appeal will fail, the legal position is really very clear
My reading was that they would look to change the primary legislation if the appeal route was not an option... from The Independent quoting a 'spokesman':
"Experience in south east London certainly suggests that it can be necessary for changes to be made at more than one Trust in order to find a sustainable service model. That's why we are appealing the decision, and considering our further options carefully. It is certainly the case that one way to put the matter beyond doubt would be to amend the primary legislation governing the administration process."
The problem with changing the legislation is that they will specifically need to remove the views of the health experts in the local area. That goes against Cameron placing such importance on localism. It wouldn't be the first time this principle had been undermined by the government, but it would seem like a really bad idea.
Yes and given such fast track legislation could apply to any hospital in the country, I think even true blue areas will dislike this. Plus the PM has reiterated more than once the importance of the 4 tests and "no back door reconfiguration"
Whether a legislative route or a complete change of rhetoric, this will take time that I personally doubt the coalition have.
I've lost count of the number of petitions I (and him indoors) have signed to stop the government's outrageous decision: that's nothing compared to all the tireless campaigning of many local people; 38 degrees deserve a big thumbs up too!! I think the mood should still be one of celebration at the moment. I was glued to the BBC 6 o'clock news on Wednesday and mention of the high court's decision made it to the national TV bulletin. I suppose it's hard to believe that this has actually happened, but as someone else pointed out, 'it's hard for the government to overturn something civilian, it makes the system look corrupt!'
Forester:
not sure if true that spokesman said it would look at primary legislation to be applied yet again retrospectively. It certainly smacks of incompetence if not of some far greater crimes.
Appeal process is open to government, although I am not sure what they can appeal against. Change the rules because I didn't win.
What is concerning me is that at what point someone will say I made a mistake and therefore will not waste any further taxpayers money to save face and then try to implement significant changes in law in order to justify their wrong decision. Someone should be facing competency test for being up to a job.
I've read the whole judgment and it seems to me Lewisham easily argued that administrator went beyond his brief. The second line of Lewisham defence was the 4 tests which only failed on one count and that is the important local GP and commissioners support. I guess Lewisham never mentioned that they would end up with parts of dissolved trust because it would be up to management and local commissioning groups to make decisions about service provision of the acquired hospital. Certainly process of administration was not designed to recommend service changes in other trusts and that is why Lewisham won.
For those who look at the best solution for our neighbours, should not forget that the moment we allow government to act in breach of current laws is the moment we should call for resignations.
"Change the rules because I didn't win."
This government have shown they are quite willing to do this. Just look at public sector pensions. Their reaction to losing key court cases where the PCS Union successfully defended it's members rights and demonstrated that government did not have the power to impose the changes it planned? Push a bill through parliament to change the law.
I see no reason to expect any better from them in respect of this decision.
Despite over 16,000 signatures on the petition, the government decided yesterday that they wish to challenge the judgement at the court of appeal. On the positive side, after another court case this will confirm that the special administrator and the secretary of state were acting outside their powers, and they might not try to do this again.
If they really wanted to adjust services for the better in South London then they could have used this time for a proper consultation on our services rather than having it as the fallout of a different reorganisation of a trust in special measures. But they know that there is no clinical or financial sense in the downgrading of Lewisham A&E and maternity services, so any proper consultation, outside of a neighbour's special measures regime, would not conclude that this is right for the people of Lewisham, Greenwich, or Southwark.
I have been given a flyer for a victory parade. Is this not ridiculously premature?
Right, now about that victory parade...
Word on Twitter is that the government's appeal has been dismissed. A great victory for Lewisham Hospital.
Well done and a huge vote of thanks to all who campaigned for this. Perhaps we can find room for you all on Deano's plinth?
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