SE23 Forum

Not sure I follow you here, lacb. Isn't the normal modern English pronunciation of Perseus PER -syooss? if so, the last syllable does rhyme with Zeus (Zyooss). Are you saying that most people nowadays say 'PER- si-uss' or 'Per-SEE -uss'? I've never heard either - not that that proves anything!

I spoke too soon. I've checked with my wife and sister-in-law - they both think it's 'PER- si-uss'.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.

My understanding is that the linguistically "correct" way to say Perseus is with 2 syllables rhyming with Zeus. Same ending. However, my point was very few recognise this and will argue for 3 syllables as though it was Latin. It doesn't really matter.

I fear you may be right, lacb.

An interesting BBC piece on British English use creeping into the US language:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19670686

and to save time a link from that piece to this blog:

http://britishisms.wordpress.com/

Not sure whether the blogger is entirely for or against what he calls Britishisms.

It makes a light read.

And isn't the world becoming smaller.

Did I see an item over the weekend saying HMQ language and accent now has an Estuary English lean to it?

I found the blog absolutely fascinating. It taught me a lot I didn't know about differences between US and British English. For example, I'd no idea that to use 'clever' of, for example, a bright child was a Britishism (US 'smart' or 'intelligent') or that Americans don't use 'ginger' to describe auburn hair. I'd also no idea that Americans often adopt Britishisms - I'd always asssumed the traffic was one way in the opposite direction.

'He's in pieces' or 'he's in bits', meaning that he's distressed or distraught. An increasingly common expression? I expect it is a development of 'to go to pieces', but I think 'being in pieces' rather than 'going to pieces' is quite new. It's certainly not in my edition of the Oxford English Dictionary. Anyone know where it's come from or why it's become popular? American? 'East Enders'?

I'm not sure of the origins, but being 'in bits' or 'in pieces' implies (to me) the end result of 'going to pieces'. It's a more prolonged affair. You 'go to pieces' and end up 'in pieces'. I think it has developed to give extra emphasis or weight to the condition, so it's more emphatic.

Sorry - cannot resist this:

Wasn't Bits n Pieces a Dave Clarke Five hit in the sixties ?

Yup - corrected to its proper title "Bits and Pieces", YouTube has the 1964 ToTP appearance here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoRLIJJSG4o

Seems so similar to "Glad All over" - but then this is not a history of British Music or BritPop.

You should have resisted, even if it meant sitting on Needles and Pins (The Searchers).

You're quite right - I hadn't realised until listening to it again this evening (for the first time for forty-six years) that the words are 'I'M IN pieces, bits and pieces'.

But I still think the expression is enjoying a new vogue after all these years.

Needles and Pins, Concrete and Clay - those were the days.

Further examples from the BBC on Britishisms in the US and Canada.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19929249

Rather interestingly it includes the word "numpty" (I am uncertain of a correct spelling as I had only ever heard it used orally and not written).

I formerly thought the word had uniquely Scottish roots as I did not hear it used in conversation in London until some four or five years after my arrival here. It has become really popular in the last ten or so years and it still sounds a little funny to hear it pronounced with an English accent.

Spoken with a Scottish accent and with varying tones it can be used in a range of meanings from the good-natured rebuke to the absolute direst insult when prefixed with an anglo-saxon colloquialism.

I like the idea that we exported the term 'muppet' to America. Surely one of the most American of all children's entertainment (other than the Swedish chef). It is a great insult which should be used more often.

I think we should issue a very British 'Sorry' for giving them Chavs and Innit. But at least they know what a queue is, or at least the ones who have flown into Heathrow will know (much better than being 'in line').

In a previous job my US colleagues found is amusing that the UK version of the web site said 'Sorry' when no results were found, 'what are you sorry about?' Us Brits were of course proud of the fact that we were always polite to the user, even when they can't spell. We also would not let the US design team call the tabs at the top of the page 'flaps'. Eventually somebody had to explain why the immature Brits could not accept this terminology.

Though I don't like the sound of innit either, so agree with the sentiment, I think it is interesting to note that it is linguistically identical in usage to French n'est-ce pas. Even the same number of syllables.

I do not think we need apologize for 'chav.' It is a very interesting word in that it shows that Romany ('chavo' = 'unmarried Romany man') can still influence English slang, as it has been doing for centuries. Cf 'bloke', which may come from Romany (and Hindi) 'loke' = 'man'.

How's 'dunnit' doing?
As in 'It makes ******* sense, dunnit?'

Or 'Ain't it'? (pronounced 'annit').
As in 'It's the ******* truth, ain't it?'

Have both these forms been dropped in favour of 'innit'?

My sense is that there is a definite move in that direction. 'Innit?' is taking over the all-purpose role whicn 'n'est ce pas?' has in French and 'nicht wahr?' has in German.

Except that, in my limited experience, people don't say 'innit' as much as popular culture would have us believe. And I speak as a parent of children at a state secondary school in Streatham.

So are you meant to reply 'Yes' or 'No' in agreement,
if you are asked '....., innit'?

Perhaps you are meant to say 'innit' back, whether you agree or not.
Innit.