SE23 Forum

evil Perryman

Always good to learn something new. When this happens again (in 18 years?), I'll know better than to clear the ice & snow in front of the house.

The biggest problem from clearing the path in front of your house is not being sued, but that by having the only clear space in the street it is used as a dog toilet.

I think the foxes are wise to that as well

I've heard the argument a couple of times over the last week that you ought not clear the snow in front of your house because you "might get sued". What I haven't seen is any reference to case law, or precedent. The only thing I could find was a discussion in the House of Lords in 2004 which may be the root of the myth:

So, basically if you try to make things better but make them worse (for example, you might pour hot water on snow to make it melt and wind up with ice instead) you'd be in trouble, but if you made an effort and did a decent job you ought to have nothing to fear.

This is not to be confused with the situation at work and the public responsibility. An employer has a responsibility to provide a safe workplace, and this means that they need to clear walkways, and provide equipment to do so safely if their own staff are doing it. There was a case recently on this which made the responsibility clear - see report here. And I believe that a council has a separate responsibility to make the roads as safe as they can (though on the evidence of last week there's a lot of latitude with this).

Personally I'd like to see us having an equivalent of the US/German system where the occupier of a residence is obliged to clear the area in front of their own place.

Yes I agree HMG should announce that everyone ( except old or infirm ) should clear a pathway on the paved area directly by their garden.
The Lords ruling quoted makes it quiteb likely that no one will do anything.
Surely they could get overpaid bankers to do penance in striped pyjamas to clear all pavements. If HMG allow any bonuses the never voting Labour again.

Folks, I have no intention of going outside and clearing snow from anywhere. It is not my responsibility and I actually think it can make things worse; I much prefer walking on crunchy snow than a pavement with hard -to -see ice- its much safer.
The snow last week has been a problem but its been a unique situation and frosty pavements are much worse and more prevalent, especially on these hills.

As this is an especially hilly area, and places such as parts of Horniman Drive and Ringmore Rise were cut off for several days, might it be an idea to start consulting with the Council now on how to make things better for the future? So much effort is placed on gritting the roads when it snows for safety reasons but I would have thought as great a risk to personal safety was people slipping on icy pavements. The Council also admitted it could not get a gritting lorry up half of the roads up here so perhaps other methods could be employed? I am thinking again of those POW movies when prisoners drop grit from their trousers in the exercise yard. Small bags of the stuff and associated implements could be distributed from outside WHSmiths and then we could all do our bit. Better than getting the shovel out.

The top of Forest Hill has always been a problem when there's snow.
However, I'm proud to say that in the 1960's years when I helped deliver milk to the area we never once missed a delivery because of it.

The milk float was very heavy and geared very low, so it would still manage to climb the hills. Indeed, we used to push the odd customers car up as well. The worst two roads were Westwood Park and Canonbie and going down could be more of a problem than going up!

The pavements and steps could be treacherous though, especially when your hands were full with glass milk bottles. If you slipped you didn't have a free hand to grab hold of something or steady yourself. Since there were more open fires in those days, customers would often sprinkle the ashes and cinders on their paths and steps. A decent pair of boots with a deep tread were essential.

Has anyone seen any gritters in Forest Hill?
The roads and pavements are treacherous, especially for residents (and voters) living on hills or inclines, which there are quite a few in Forest Hill.
Maybe Councillor Susan Wise (Cabinet Member for Customer Services) would like to give an update.

OR rather a general lack of gritting on roads and pavements[/color][/i], FULL STOP[i][color=#FF0000]

Yesterday I found Dacres Road especially bad for pedestrians.
Why is priority given to road users over pedestrians.

I was wondering that too. Much more warning than last year but the pavements around Blythe Hill are extremely dangerous.

I wonder why the council pavement cleaners are not redeployed to sprinkle a little salt.

Taken from Lewisham Council's website (I googled Lewisham gritting)

It appears that, after roadways, places like main routes to schools have been prioritised. Quote:

"If, during cold weather, your road has not been salted it means it has not been identified as a priority route.
If you are concerned that a road or footpath is dangerous due to the presence of ice or snow, please contact us using the details below or use the online street fault reporting form" [this is a live link on the site].
"We will try to grit these additional areas as soon as is practical but please understand that there may be many areas requiring treatment and our staff will prioritise all calls."

There was some road gritting on Hengrave Road before the snow and there was gritting on pavements near HOP station yesterday evening.

I think Lewisham Council's approach to gritting is quite novel: I saw today that they had dumped a random pile of grit on South Road (quite steep) and left it for people to spread about a bit. How helpful that it was at the top of the hill.

My solution is to abandon pavements altogether and walk in the road...if anyone doesn't like it, I'll invite them to walk a mile in my shoes.

Sandy wrote, quoting Lewisham Council:

Does thid mean that 'non-priority routes' get gritted only of someone contacts the council to ask them to do so?

Dipsolala wrote:

I think giving local people the grit and asking them to spread it themselves is actually quite a good idea, if the only other option is not to have the road gritted at all. I wish we'd been given the opportunity of doing this in my street. Better still, why not have permanent bins of grit on the street, for use when required? I believe this used to happen in some areas.

I too would be happy to throw some grit down, try walking from Honor Oak Park to 63 stop treacherous. I found it scary being reasonably able bodied and am sure it left many elderly housebound as it's not an area well served by shops if you live at the top of the hill you can only go up or down, it's been like an icerink.

My solution is to abandon pavements altogether and walk in the road...if anyone doesn't like it, I'll invite them to walk a mile in my shoes.

Unless you live on or have to walk along Rockbourne Road, which has a slippery veneer of danger co[/i]vering both the paths and road.

My road (minor residential road) was gritted about 11.30pm on Thursday night. Friday morning a man was gritting the pavement outside the parade of shops on Perry Vale - by hand, a very slow process. I was actually impressed by Lewisham's early actions, although it's unfortunate they don't/can't do the whole length of main roads such as Perry Vale on at least one pavement. Even this morning I was walking in the road on the way to the station.

I, too, must write in support of the gritters, who went down my cul-de-sac road - definitely not a priority route, despite extreme difficulty of access due to gas works.

Sadly, they only did the road and, in common with other writers., I must agree, the pavement is death trap!