|Posted on Friday, 10 November, 2006 - 01:24 pm: |
Before the night of the long knives, one of the other posters would already have started this thread. The postings on Ye Olde Honor Oake have already gone well off track into why I want SE23 to be like East Dulwich (or in my case why not). Along the lines of 'what's good about Forest Hill' thread, perhaps others would like to give their views.
My introduction to SE London was some nurses training at Guys and living in Lee Green. Wonderful parties, and the days after in the Fox and Furkin in Lewisham, so sad to hear about its demise.
Anyway to the point in question. East Dulwich is becoming full of clones (although still chose to shop there), Peckham is vibrant but in my mind still a bit too front line. More shops in Sydenham, but pubs are generally dreadful and the area still has the air of neglect. Best thing about Catford is the Blythe Hill Tavern, which of course is actually in SE23. And though in Horniman Heights we all aspire to living in Dulwich proper, the exspense of the place and the grid locking during the school run puts it all into perspective.
|Posted on Friday, 10 November, 2006 - 06:02 pm: |
When people call for improvements to FH why does it have to use trendy middle class North/SW London as its model?
Although originally from Southend, I moved away from Stoke Newington because it all got too much. Shops indeed became trendier - although full of absolutely useless tat on the whole, house prices shot up and a few traditional shops disappeared. The gastro pub classes moved into 'cool' urban gated developments, converted Victorian schools and warehouses, rarely mixing outside their own kind. I gradually got a sense of a more fragmented community and a divide between rich and poor. That's why I like FH as it is on the whole. It's an ordinary, pleasant, mixed place and there's nothing wrong with that.
|Posted on Saturday, 11 November, 2006 - 09:44 am: |
"..ordinary, pleasant..." bit like magnolia paint then....
Why do you have to persist with the frankly lazy thought that "traditional" equals "good". I'm sure bear baiting was considered "tradition" during the 17th century.
We've heard what you don't want, how about what you do want? FH needs development so what would it look like in 5 years if you had your way?
|Posted on Saturday, 11 November, 2006 - 10:16 am: |
Stop bear-baiting us locals and put something more constructive forward, seeing as you have a lot to say on the matter.
|Posted on Saturday, 11 November, 2006 - 01:18 pm: |
Us locals? I thought this was a forum for people who live in SE23 as I do.
What I'm trying to get to is what people who don't like the way E. Dulwich and other successfully regenerated areas have gone see as a viable alternative.
|Posted on Saturday, 11 November, 2006 - 08:15 pm: |
Simon, it's interesting how people behave in a forum. I wonder if you'd be this rude to me if you met me in the real world....
I've already said what I hope for - if you bothered to read my contributions properly. Careful development with a balance of old AND new - but I think it's important that new development should show some respect to existing architecture. Clearly you haven't been reading my input.
|Posted on Saturday, 11 November, 2006 - 08:19 pm: |
...and Simon perhaps you should take note that up until now the level of debate on these forums has been largely civilised, with one or two exceptions.
|Posted on Sunday, 12 November, 2006 - 11:29 am: |
There's really no need to patronise me. My intention was not to be rude but to try to have a robust debate that gets down to the specifics.
Now, to the point. Agreed that the architecture, paticularly the use of existing structures, of the area is important and should be respected. I have to say, haven't seen many terrible examples in areas such as E. Dulwich/SW London, although there is a house towards Denmark Hill that sticks out like a sore thumb in a Victorian terrace. Nice building, wrong place.
Again, how would you see FH developing over the next 5 years if not in a similar manner to E. Dulwich?
|Posted on Sunday, 12 November, 2006 - 06:08 pm: |
I found your tone quite confrontational and unnecessarily so. Me responding to that isn't the same as me patronising you. Seems like we should agree to differ.
But one thing I will say is that I fail to understand why my raising concerns about poorer people feeling priced out of an area constitutes 'lazy thinking'.
|Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 09:23 am: |
Couple of issues with people on lower incomes here. In terms of affordable housing, yes there's a problem throughout London and the South East that's been well-documented elsewhere on this forum. One hopes that the current or a future administration at National or GLA level can come up with a solution (though I'm not holding my breath).
On the other hand, surely a vibrant High Street creates employment particularly un and semi-skilled which can only benefit those who otherwise might struggle to find work? I know that the supposed "trickle-down" effect is largely exaggerated in cases like this but there must be some economic benefit to more affluent people spending their money locally.
|Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 09:32 am: |
I didn't think that Simon was that rude. There, I said it. While I agree that it would be awful for people to be priced out of the area, it is inevitable. We happen to live in one of the few remaining places in London where a young professional couple can afford to buy a decent home, it's why my wife and I moved here and I'd guess why a lot of people on this forum moved here. Because of this new demographic, the Dulwich-ication of Forest Hill and Honor Oak will probably happen.
Another thing to remember is that a lot of poorer people bought their council flats when that *insert explesive of your choice, the message board didn't like my attempt to star one out* Thatcher gave them the opportunity to purchase them. They paid about £10,000 for them and are now selling them to people like me for the best part of £200K and moving off to the good life in Sidcup or somewhere.
|Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 11:30 am: |
Back to the orignal thread. Good things about Forest HIll in comaprison to others.
Artist/Crafts quarter on Havelock?
Potentially good local shopping.
Access to Green Spaces (Sydenham Wood my favourite)
Easy access to Central London.
|Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 12:50 pm: |
I'm off-line for a weekend and looks what happens. Hope the handbags are now safely locked away. Idea was for nice things to be said about our area at a cheeky exspense of our neighbours - to counteract all those who harp on how wonderful Dulwich is (then move there then!).
Development of the new wonderful FH can come through other means, not my thread (sounding a bit precious now...)
Note the comment on the house that sticks out like a sore thumb in Denmark Hill, Horniman Heights is full of such planning monstrosities
|Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 12:59 pm: |
More good things about Forest Hill in my opinion:
* The views from the hills
* Easy parking close to the town centre
* No CPZ
* A variety of pubs including a gastropub and a comedy club
* A good collection of local restaurants
* Sainsburys and a train station in the town centre (not half-way to Denmark Hill)
* 'Tube' services coming in a few years
There is so much about Forest Hill that gives the area more potential than East Dulwich. Some development along the same lines as East Dulwich is inevitable, and if that means that there are less closed shops on the high street, then I'm personally in favour.
I don't see a significant difference in views on this matter, everybody seems to agree that while we don't want to be a clone of East Dulwich, we also don't want Forest Hill to stagnate as it did for a number of years at the end of the 90s and beginning of this decade. Things have turned a corner and Forest Hill is improving and, in my opinion, getting better all the time.
|Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 03:43 pm: |
I know that a degree of "gentrification" generates the local economy - but there does need to be a balance which I agree is difficult to maintain. It's a bit of a farce if all those working in the shops, cleaning the streets etc can't afford to live there.
The long term social consequences need to be considered carefully - but I have no illusions about any government effectively tackling the problem because that would mean interfering with the free market.
What I really like about FH is that there is still obviously a good cross-section of people living here.
|Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 03:51 pm: |
If the woman I saw in Sainsbury's local yesterday is anything to go by, some are crosser than others.
|Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2006 - 05:00 pm: |
That wasn't me!
|Posted on Wednesday, 22 November, 2006 - 11:13 pm: |
Why live in LB Lewisham - after being here for 18 years I have only just discovered Telegraph Hill Park - wonderful! Neighbours in Southwark must be so jealous, good to see that the Council Tax goes on to good use, well at least occasionally.