SE23.com
The community website for Forest Hill and Honor Oak, London SE23
Events | Features | Forum | Local Books | Contact
 

Forum Archive
Bicycles on the pavement

Author Message
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Sunday, 30 July, 2006 - 10:24 pm:   

I was hit by a cyclist on the pavement on Wednesday. I had no idea he was coming.
Has anyone else had any problems with bicycles on the pavement?
Brian
Joined 18-04-2005
Posted on Monday, 31 July, 2006 - 07:09 am:   

I am afraid cyclist in general treat pedestrians with disdain ( especially on zebra crossings which they think only apply to motorised transportation.
When I was younger I recall it was permissable to ride with care on the pavement up to about 10 years old.
No good reporting to Police I fear
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
Posted on Monday, 31 July, 2006 - 09:46 am:   

Brian, I think you'll find cyclists do not "generally treat pedestrians with disdain". Like anything, there are good cyclists and bad cyclists. In general, cyclists have no vendetta against pedestrians since a collision will usually hurt the cyclist just as much as the pedestrian.

Sherwood was unfortunately hit by a member of the reckless minority. Hope you're okay Sherwood.

Must say though, that cycling provision in parts of SE23 is so woeful that I can't blame some for using the pavement if it feels safer. That said, if someone is going to use the pavement they should be cycling at a snail's pace so as not to endanger themselves and others.
Brian
Joined 18-04-2005
Posted on Monday, 31 July, 2006 - 10:36 am:   

Bosco
Probably my comments very sweeping as usual.
One major bug is when cars stop at crossings and cyclists sail on.
I agree may be a minority
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Monday, 31 July, 2006 - 11:14 am:   

I had one cyclists ringing his bell like mad at me one day, because there was not enough room to get past me on the narrow pavement.
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Monday, 31 July, 2006 - 12:31 pm:   

Bosco,

I suggest you talke a look at this link:

http://www.express.co.uk/news_detail.html?sku=242
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Monday, 31 July, 2006 - 12:36 pm:   

This link is interesting:

564-2289821%2C00.html,http://www.timesonline.co.uk /article/0,,564-2289821,00.html

Or it would be if it worked!

Numberplates for bicycles?
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
Posted on Monday, 31 July, 2006 - 12:50 pm:   

Now the area really has gone to the dogs, first someone who actually likes the Grove Tavern, now Daily Express ravings (aren't we all sandal wearing Guardian readers around here?). Shouldn't rise to this but sadly I opened the document.

Alarmist rubbish, you can't even laugh at it as you would Clarkson. Thanks for some proportionality Bosco.

Twenty years of cycling in London - three road rage indidents against me, one hit and run, five cars pulling out in front of me, turning left into me, doing a U turn as I was turning right, cutting me up. One situation with a pedestrain that was my fault, plenty of near misses when they have walked out without looking in particular Oxford and Fleet Streets.

Sorry for the near miss Sherwood, it was out of order but most of us would have been mortified.
Plenty of rational debate on cyclist flouting the law eg on the London Cycling Capaign mag.
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
Posted on Monday, 31 July, 2006 - 02:28 pm:   

Sherwood - I didn't read all of the article - saw it was Daily Express and knew I didn't need to read it through to know broadly what it said.

I haven't been cycling in London as long as Baggydave but I've had a number of near misses that were pretty much always the fault of the other road user. I don't cycle on the pavement unless it's a shared path and the only incidents I've had with pedestrians is where they've walked out into my path without looking simply because they are relying on their ears to hear traffic rather than their eyes.

For some reason, cyclists seem to be singled out by all other road users as the most dangerous user of the highways in this country. It's total rubbish and the longer papers like the Express peddle their vitriol the more dangerous it is for cyclists on the roads because everyone thinks we're fair game. A van driver tried to cut across my path last week at speed and laughed when I had to swerve out of the way. As long as that attitude prevails it is little wonder that some take to the pavement.

As I said, I hope you were not badly hurt, but please put it in context and remember that the vast majority of cyclists are responsible road users.

As a matter of interest, what stretch of pavement were you hit on?
Seeformiles
Joined 09-04-2005
Posted on Monday, 31 July, 2006 - 06:31 pm:   

As usual the press and the law takes ages to catch up with something that's been a problem for years.
I've had several near-misses with aggressive pavement cyclists.
Seeformiles
Joined 09-04-2005
Posted on Monday, 31 July, 2006 - 06:39 pm:   

I don't think cyclists are being unfairly singled out - but there does seem to be a new breed of cyclist who have no idea about the highway code. All my cyclist mates tell me how careful they are but there is a noticeable minority who are causing problems. Raising this issue doesn't mean we're attacking all cyclists! I find teenage boys are the worst offenders round here, not seasoned cyclists who use the bike regularly to get to work. Like the article says, they get away with it 'cos the police have enough to do already.
Seeformiles
Joined 09-04-2005
Posted on Monday, 31 July, 2006 - 09:50 pm:   

Painful back is playing havoc with my grammar! apologies. That's my excuse.
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 01 August, 2006 - 09:45 am:   

fair enough seeformiles but if that's the case then why don't we see similar articles about reckless moped riders, of whom there are many along with the myriad of bad drivers who break lights and zig zag in and out of lanes in a far more dangerous way than any cyclist?

And while what you say is very reasoned, and to an extent I agree with you, very few, if any, of the papers present the view in quite such a balanced way.
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, 01 August, 2006 - 10:39 am:   

Bosco,
Possibly because if you become a road-user, you pay your money and you take your chances. We don't have any choice if we use the pavement.

The problem is now that we have a new aggressive breed (possibly the small minority) of cyclists who are becoming careless and aggressive with pedestrians as well as with other road users. It may be that they do not know that strictly they should not be on the pavement.

Incidentally, I have been informed that the police community support officers are being trained that it is illegal to ride bicycles on the pavement. A fixed penalty of £30 can be given (not sure by them or by the police).
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 01 August, 2006 - 11:32 am:   

Can they also give fines to pedestrians who walk in the cycle lane?
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, 01 August, 2006 - 11:43 am:   

No.
But I did once see them arrest a mugger.
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 01 August, 2006 - 12:25 pm:   

From a cyclist chat room - yes there will be bias but suggest you all read it [my comments in square brackets]:

www.cyclingplus.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=102 813

Usually about 15 people die every five years in bike-ped collisions, which is 15 too many by any count. [the web site gives a parliamentary question on this]
However, 14 of those are in the road and only one on the pavement. Obviously, in the road, it's quite likely that the pedestrian is at fault. It's not clear how many of the 15 are cyclists as opposed to pedestrians.

About 40 pedestrians a year are killed by cars on the pavement, ie about 200 in the same five years.

Therefore, as a pedestrian, the main risk that a pavement cyclist poses to you is that he or she may distract you from watching out for cars heading your way onto the pavement. [!]

[I believe 3500 pedestrians are killed on the road each year. Also Baggydave occasionally stands on Manor Mount trying to obstruct cars coming down at speed in the wrong direction, surprised he has not been run over or knifed, but that is one of his bug-bears}

[deleted some stuff as it was a bit silly, but read it on the site]

None of this is a defence of pavement cycling.
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 02 August, 2006 - 01:34 pm:   

Baggydave,
Follow this link for someone killed by 3 cyclists:

http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0500 lewisham/tm_objectid=17462375%26method=full%26site id=50100%26headline=mum%2ds%2dgrief%2dfor%2ddead%2 dson-name_page.html
Abi
Joined 09-09-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 02 August, 2006 - 01:49 pm:   

Baggydave,
Follow this link for someone killed by 3 cyclists:

Err.... Sherwood, shouldn't that be "...killed by three gunmen, who then abandoned their cycles before running away"?
Seeformiles
Joined 09-04-2005
Posted on Thursday, 03 August, 2006 - 11:16 pm:   

I do wonder what proportion of 'incidents' actually get reported. How much bad behaviour by motorists/moped riders/psycho kids on mini motorbikes/cyclists do we routinely put up with as part of the deal of living in London? Nearly got run over by a tuk-tuk rider(whatever they're called) only yesterday. He was cycling up on the pavement while looking behind him. Nice!
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
Posted on Friday, 04 August, 2006 - 09:30 am:   

What's a tuk-tuk or am I showing my age in asking such a question?!
Andy
Joined 23-02-2005
Posted on Friday, 04 August, 2006 - 09:57 am:   

They're kind of motorcycle powered taxi thingies, originally from Thailand.
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Friday, 04 August, 2006 - 10:21 am:   

I had to dodge a bicycle towing a trailer on the pavement yesterday.
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
Posted on Friday, 04 August, 2006 - 11:43 am:   

You don't seem to have much luck with cyclists and pavements Sherwood! Whereabouts in SE23 are these trangressions taking place?
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Friday, 04 August, 2006 - 12:18 pm:   

It's a jungle out there!
Watch out that John Reid (our new tough Home Secretary) doesn't crush your bicycle!
(He was on TV yesterday crushing mini-motos. More spin!)
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
Posted on Friday, 27 October, 2006 - 01:41 pm:   

What I heard was that Ken, despite his views on intergrated transport in London, was recently out to get sandal wearing cyclists such as Baggy Dave. However the campaign failed as several times more motorists were seen running lights, blocking box junctions, driving in bus lanes and stopping on the bike advance lanes than cyclists caught doing naughty things.

Totally hear say but doesn't surprise me.
Evanick
Joined 29-09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 15 November, 2006 - 02:12 pm:   

Sadly my bike was stolen a couple of weeks ago, from outside my own house! Partially my own fault because I did not lock it but it just shows you, can't leaving anyting. Although the bike was old I miss it as used to ride to work every day on it and now must take a bus. I am looking perhaps to get a secondhand bike somewhere. Does anyone have any ideas where to look, apart from boot sales?
Any advice appreciated.
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 15 November, 2006 - 04:28 pm:   

Try Comptons in Catford. They do 2nd hand bikes. There's also a place in Peckham on Consort Lane (in the Railway Arches I think) - have never used either so don't know whether they're any good.

But what on earth were you thinking not locking your bike!!!
Calvin
Joined 20-02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 15 November, 2006 - 04:31 pm:   

Try some of the freecycling sites if you're not picky about quality; people often give away old bikes.
Fhssecretary
Joined 12-10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 15 November, 2006 - 05:31 pm:   

Go to Brick Lane or Kingsland Waste on the weekend and buy your old one back.
Deanos
Joined 01-12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 15 November, 2006 - 05:39 pm:   

Brick Lane? Are you implying that Bangladeshi people are thieves? I don't appreciate that sentiment.
Domc
Joined 17-03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 15 November, 2006 - 06:33 pm:   

Evanick - i have recently bought a new bike and as yet have not got around to selling my old one. It is a mountain bike style with road tyres but needs a little tlc to get it running smoothly.

Will gladly offload for a low cost. Maybe go through webmaster to get my email.
Domc
Joined 17-03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 15 November, 2006 - 07:20 pm:   

Evanick, just realised my email has changed since registered so best contact on:
dom at domcharnock.co.uk

Anyone know how I can update this information? - webmaster?
Webmaster
Joined 01-01-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 15 November, 2006 - 09:14 pm:   

Done.
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
Posted on Thursday, 16 November, 2006 - 09:56 am:   

Deanos - I doubt there was any racist intent in that comment - it is fairly well known that if you go to Brick Lane market at the weekend all of the bikes for sale are stolen! The ethnic origin of the sellers is neither here nor there.
Brian
Joined 18-04-2005
Posted on Thursday, 16 November, 2006 - 10:42 am:   

If it is well known why are not the officers of the law there
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
Posted on Thursday, 16 November, 2006 - 11:14 am:   

They generally are Brian but unless they have the owner of the bike there with them, how do they prove it.

that and the fact that the police do not take bike theft at all seriously...
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
Posted on Thursday, 16 November, 2006 - 11:28 am:   

Well, my wife's bike was stolen from outside her office in the City a few months back (cut through the chain).

As you say, we expected little from the police, but we have recently been told that they have arrested someone in connection with it, so they are doing something. Must give them credit when due.
Brian
Joined 18-04-2005
Posted on Thursday, 16 November, 2006 - 11:40 am:   

Surely the Police can ask for proof of ownership ( receipt of purchase etc ).
What is the world coming to
Evanick
Joined 29-09-2006
Posted on Thursday, 16 November, 2006 - 11:43 am:   

Thanks evrybody for advice abt getting a bike. I also heard that Halfords are having special offers on bikes so maybe worth having a look, especially as they are in Catford.
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Thursday, 16 November, 2006 - 11:55 am:   

Curiously Halfords and Compton Cycles are almost next to each other!
How's that for competition?

Perhaps bicycles should be registered as Ken Livingstone suggested.
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
Posted on Thursday, 16 November, 2006 - 12:02 pm:   

Some views, hope these are helpful. Brick Lane is a popular place for bikes to be dispatched, but if it is valuable it will have gone further a field (oop North or the continent). If it was a junky wanting a quick fix (as probably when my last bike was stolen), it will be in some estate somewhere. Donít diss Comptons. The second hand bike shops in Peckham and the Elephant have been suggested but when I went to both places they came across as perfectly legitimate. May be worth giving e-bay a go.

Of course we should all mark our bikes Ė stamped post codes, microdots, UV markers etc but I still havenít got round to it.

Look on my thread about a stolen girlís bike and you will see we recovered this by putting posters up Ė some yoofs had nicked it and then thrown it through a garden. The police were very disorganised on this (they would have returned it if they had a joined up reporting system, 0/10)

Finally, back to the police, perhaps worth trying a police auction for a replacement. Believe they find loads of bikes but cannot trace their owners.
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
Posted on Thursday, 16 November, 2006 - 12:40 pm:   

Don't go to Halfords unless you want a bike that will fall apart - they are rubbish (this is not a Catford specific point btw but relates to the chain as a whole). Don't know what other cyclists on the board think but I would go for a 2nd hand bike of a good make such as Specialized, Trek or possibly Ridgeback.

Brian - I have had my current bike for almost 7 years (excepting various wheels and saddles which have been stolen and replaced in that time) - if a police officer asked me to produce proof of ownership I wouldn't be able to and I suspect most cyclists would be in the same boat!

I too keep meaning to get around to stamping my bike and doing the whole UV thing but it just always seems like it can wait...
Domc
Joined 17-03-2005
Posted on Thursday, 16 November, 2006 - 01:22 pm:   

Bosco - I have always used Halfords for my bikes. New one seems OK to date and old one is 10 years old and works fine still after only a bit of maintenance on my part.

Halfords indeed have offers on and very good indeed.
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
Posted on Thursday, 16 November, 2006 - 05:25 pm:   

Halfords aint rubbish, they are total rubbish. It ain't a bike shop any more. It was once. And Old Kent Road, they are particularly disinterested. Dunno how they make any money
Djnever
Joined 09-04-2006
Posted on Friday, 17 November, 2006 - 02:07 pm:   

For stupid offers on bikes, I suggest sterlinghouse. They have a website and I think you can get 2 bikes for £99 with lights, helmets and locks! They look a bit poor, but for that price....

I think even Tesco sell bikes now too.
Baggydave
Joined 19-05-2004
Posted on Friday, 17 November, 2006 - 02:27 pm:   

Yes but they are still a pain to throw away, as you will have to do a few months later if you use them. They will be three times the weight of a proper bike, the components of very poor quality, bits made in a sweat shop. Just look at the economics, somebody has to make some money somewhere so what value are you getting? And they will probably do you physical damage as well.
Evanick
Joined 29-09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 21 November, 2006 - 11:00 am:   

My last bike was from Argos and it lasted 10 years (the one that was stolen outside my house), so maybe Argos is worth looking into.
Leaf
Joined 05-08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 21 November, 2006 - 06:44 pm:   

"If it was a junky wanting a quick fix (as probably when my last bike was stolen), it will be in some estate somewhere"

hmm,because estates are full of junkies[except your 'posh' estate of course!]
Ooperlooper
Joined 28-06-2006
Posted on Friday, 24 November, 2006 - 01:31 am:   

While I don't condone cycling on pavements, cyclists wouldn't use them if they felt safe on the roads. It's a pretty ridiculous idea, if you think about it, making cyclists share roads with drivers. Cycling lanes are great, but not much use when drivers are allowed to park on roadsides. What London needs is to ban roadside parking and build a Japanese-style vertical carparks on every corner (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P44V7n77xlw for a glimse). These are not a gimmick; they are a tried and tested part of everyday life in Japan, and there are tens of thousands of them across the country. Why must British politicians persist in looking to copy American ideas and/or claim that nothing can be done when many of London's problems have already been solved in the far more congested but far more livable Tokyo?
Djnever
Joined 09-04-2006
Posted on Friday, 24 November, 2006 - 04:08 pm:   

Good point Oooper. I think the roads are very dangerous for cyclists, especially in London. I sense though that Ken's masterplan of ridding the roads of cars with his c-tax, we can all expect to have a free-run soon enough. I often use the pavement, especially coming down Old Kent Road - it can be quite dangerous on there.

More cycles lanes would be good I guess.


Local forums in nearby areas: SE13.com | SE14.com | SE20.com | SE22.com | SE24.com | SE25.com | SE27.com