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Road Issue

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The Don
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Posted on Saturday, 10 May, 2003 - 03:00 pm:   

This is an issue which I think needs to be seriously looked into.

The corner of Waldenshaw Road and Manor Mount is becoming a major danger point. I only moved into Manor Mount in January and I have noticed the problem getting worse and worse. Cars are parked up on both roads right to the corners, ever past the corners on some days. This causes a number of issues:

1: It is basically illegal
2: Pedestrians can't see the traffic coming along Waldenshaw road until they are halfway across
3: The big delivery trucks for Sainsbury’s sometimes cannot turn the corner and sit there for ages until they can, causing a major blockage

I think it is no coincidence that as soon as the Congestion Charge came into effect, more people are parking (for free) in Manor Mount and Waldenshaw and taking the train into London. While this is good for London congestion, it is not good for the residents of both streets. I have on occasion not been to get into my own driveway due to cars parked over the entrance.

With a Nursery School in Waldenshaw Road too, it does not help when the parents double park their cars too. Even if for only a few minutes. I have been stuck many a time not being able to get past due to this.

Anybody else have any thoughts on this issue?
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Posted on Saturday, 10 May, 2003 - 03:44 pm:   

let's hope forest hill becomes a controlled parking zone as soon as possible
The anti-whinger brigade.
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Posted on Sunday, 11 May, 2003 - 11:39 pm:   

It never has been particular easy for pedestrians in that small corner of Forest Hill. The price you pay for narrow high stepped pavements and a main road running along side i'm afraid. I would check your surveyor as when you bought your place, he would have put it all in the report.
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Posted on Monday, 12 May, 2003 - 07:36 pm:   

The Don has identified a legitimate concern and I don't find the comments posted on Sunday constructive. Motorists look for a rat run which avoids the gridlock on the A205 main road through our town, managed by Transport for London. In this particular instance, the problem starts further back when drivers zip round off the A205 into Waldenshaw Road and whizz down this road before turning right into Manor Mount,charge down David's Road,and then turn left to rejoin the South Circular. This rat run avoids the blockages on the section of the A205 South Circular running past Sainsbury's and the built out bus stops further down the hill.

Matt has previously pointed out how hazardous it is to cross London Road to and from the bus stops, postbox, and shops because the pedestrian crossings are now seriously out of synch with the bus stops etc thanks to ill considered decisions initiated by W S Atkins for TfL for moving stops from where they used to be.

Rat-running is not just a problem at the Manor Mount junction with Waldenshaw Road but a major problem in many residential roads in Forest Hill which are close to the A205 South Circular,creating dangerous conditions for pedestrians and effectively changing the status of these side roads into main roads. This switch of traffic off the A205 onto local roads is certainly a major contributor to the appalling condition of many of Forest Hill's roads and an increase in pedestrians being run over.

Since Red Routing of the South Circular,these problems have got a lot worse, even though the number of traffic light controlled junctions have been increased and traffic grinds to a halt on the A205.

May I suggest to the webmaster that a section is created specifically for recording concerns about individual roads so that we build up a overall picture of where the traffic is diverting onto local roads in SE23. Armed with this information, an approach could then be made to both Transport for London and Lewisham's traffic authority to get something done about it. I believe that Southwark is already undertaking just such an exercise, funded by TfL.
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Posted on Monday, 12 May, 2003 - 07:55 pm:   

Apolgies but I managed to lose a couple of lines of my original text before posting my message. I support The Don in his concerns over selfish parking in Waldenshaw Road and Manor Mount. It does not help that the signpost on London Road which should direct drivers to the Car Park behind Sainsbury's is positioned incorrectly so drivers do not see it. There does seem a strong case for introduction of some enforceable parking restrictions in Waldenshaw Road and Manor Mount but do residents really want contolled parking?.
The issue I raised is another major problem affecting both these roads.
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Posted on Tuesday, 13 May, 2003 - 10:19 am:   

much as I hate to defend a private contractor, alice misses my point about london road. it's never been safe to cross london road anywhere between horniman and sainsburys. where the bus stop was before was even more dangerous because you could get knocked down by a car swinging around honor oak road which is obscured by a blind spot. besides, i've been told by tfl that they had to move the bus stop because the pavement at the old location was too low for disabled people to get on and off the bus. WHat's needed there simply is a pedestrian crossing to allow people to cross safely
Manor mount resident
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Posted on Tuesday, 13 May, 2003 - 01:13 pm:   

As a resident in Manor Mount I would welcome a parking permit style contol of cars in Forest Hill as it is becoming worse, like they do in Lewisham.

I am also concerned about the speed cars go down Waldenshaw Road and into Manor Mount having nearly been knocked down! Maybe some kind of speed restictions should be put in place here?
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Posted on Tuesday, 13 May, 2003 - 02:53 pm:   

speed bumps are always a good thing to put off drivers....
The Don
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Posted on Tuesday, 13 May, 2003 - 05:56 pm:   

Traffic Calming measures such as Speed bumps or single lane raises are not the best answer. They just cause the drivers to accelerate hard and then break hard between them. Making it worse as the cars are less controlable in that condition. I think parking measures mentioned by MMR is a good idea for both the two roads in question. Only if they are backed up by official means! Also a 20MPH speed limit backed up by a police presence now and then. Plus believe it or not, speed bumps cost thousands of pounds to contruct, money that is a "Better Priority" elsewhere.

I think nothing will be able to stop drivers being stupid, but I do think something can be done for this particular issue.
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Posted on Tuesday, 13 May, 2003 - 10:02 pm:   

As you enter Waldenshaw from London the road actually invites driver to drive into it. It is long, straight and unobstructed. With cars parked on both sides and no T junctions, drivers automatically assume that they must get to the end ASAP as there are no passing places, (unless you know about the three or four small keep clear areas outside the school, driveways etc)

The measures need to co-incide with whatever the traffic is doing in Honor Oak Road and the main South Circular.

A suggestion for local interested parties is to form a campaign group and approach Railtrack, or who ever is responsible for the Station and Road Proposals that have recently been passed.

The opportunity is arising where the Centre of Forest Hill can actually use the several regeneration initiatives to collectively problem solve the issues that you lay bare.

Sainsburys is being looked at. It will have an impact on your area. Get yourself onto the local steering / working group where resident reps are permitted.

The same goes for the Station. All major developments hold regular meetings of all interest parties to iron the issues arising.

It is better to be represented and involved, than working against the authororties who believe that they are making enhancements, but sometimes lack the local level understanding.

You contributions, based upon the content of your arguements seem valid and weight worthy of discussion in the 'wider picture'.
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Posted on Monday, 09 June, 2003 - 04:02 pm:   

As a resident of Waldenshaw Road I am fed up not being able to park outside or even near our own house, even on Sundays. Cars of the staff of local businesses block the spaces rather than paying to use the public car park. Friends and family with young children have to park two or three streets away and then walk back carrying their luggage. I know I do not have an automatic right to a parking space near my home but when I have visitors it does not seem fair they cannot park here because the spaces are always blocked.

Also the speed at which vehicles are driven up and down our road is potentially very dangerous for pedestrians and bearing mind Fairlawn Nursery School is in this road, young children could be hurt or killed, unless the speed of traffic is limited. Should we ask for a 20 mph limit?

Do other people in Waldenshaw Road agree with me?
If so, what should we do about it?
FH Resident
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Posted on Monday, 09 June, 2003 - 08:21 pm:   

Yes, agreed.

Speak to Inspector Micheal Haeth at the Police Station.

He is your community 'boss' man from the Police's point of view.

Also, from recent experience, a decent enough chap who WILL assist in pointing you in the right direction.

Lewisham Council Highways department allways respond if you go through the Mayors Office.
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Posted on Monday, 09 June, 2003 - 09:20 pm:   

There is no excuse not to use Sainsburys carpark especially as there is no charge currently.

The parking at either end of Waldenshaw Road is dangerous whether you are attempting to enter the road as a car driver or if you are trying to negotiate the entrance of the Fieldings.

I thought there was a residents committee for St Davids Road and Manor Mount can they not apply any pressure?
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Posted on Tuesday, 10 June, 2003 - 05:41 am:   

Speed - The London Road junction with Waldenshaw Road is extremely dangerous for pedestrians to cross because of the volumes of traffic and the speed at which these vehicles whip round the corner into Waldenshaw Road. A restriction to 20 mph here should be imposed .

Parking - This is an issue for many of us locals and will only get worse if we do not do something about it. The residential roads around the Horniman are getting swamped by their visitors,wedding parties, conferences etc.
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Posted on Tuesday, 10 June, 2003 - 09:04 am:   

I live on Manor Mount and am not aware of any residents committee, if there is one could somebody give me details of who to contact
many humbug returns
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Posted on Tuesday, 10 June, 2003 - 01:25 pm:   

I would add that it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE, even on a Sunday, to cross Honor Oak Road from the Tescos/Esso to be able walk down London road, due to traffic and no pedestrian lights.You cant walk up Honor Oak road and cross later either as there is no path and parked wrecks of cars permanently block the way. If you 've got a pushchair your basically condemmed to spending the rest of your life trapped there, I'm surprised there arent a pile of skeletons on the corner.

The whole F hill town centre needs a radical rethink. Presently it is hopeless for motorists and pedestrians alike.
drug addict
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Posted on Tuesday, 10 June, 2003 - 01:27 pm:   

Isnt there some supremo from the council who's got responsibility for this shambles?
Mark up the hill
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Posted on Monday, 23 June, 2003 - 11:55 pm:   

I must admit that I am one of those motorists who used to zoom down W'shaw into Manor Mt and back onto the S Circ. That will stop forthwith as I am mindful now of the fact that there is a nursery. I think that the freedom this road gives from the A205 crawl makes drivers do that and so I don't think a 20mph will be adhered to. Put a camera there. It'll encourage people to drive at the correct speeds whilst not killing the suspension (not to mention add to pollution) caused by bumps.

Part of the problem stems from the inability to turn right out of Wood Vale which has put pressure on Honor Oak Road. THis road was not designed to cope with the numbers of cars and consequently the tail backs from the traffic lights are horrendous. I take the train to work and live in the Horniman area so have to walk up Manor Mt. I see too many cars now turning DOWN MMt from HOR because they're tired of waiting. This nearly caused an accident but an unwitting pedestrian may be killed soon. I know some people on that road who are fed up so action needs to be taken.

Finally all I ask is for an island at the juction with HOR and Westwood Park. The lack of crossing ability allied to the lack of pavement on one side all the way down to the lights is so shabby.
The Don
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Posted on Tuesday, 24 June, 2003 - 06:38 am:   


When I started this discussion I wondered if it would make any difference or if people would have any thoughts on the matter. By saying that you will stop using the roads as a shortcut, it has proved to me that this is an issue worth more action.

I thank you for being honest and also for your suggestions. I just wish more people did not feel the need to risk lives for a few minutes saved off their journey time. I think perhaps it is time to take this matter further. I will be contacting the council shortly.

Lets just hope they read this forum!
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Posted on Tuesday, 19 August, 2003 - 07:53 am:   

I agree with the comments about the crossing across HOR and London Road by Tesco's
There is NO time for pedestrians to get across and it is not clear when they should be attempting to cross either. This is a very busy crossing , especially on Sundays , with all the people walking to and from Horniman's.
With regard to speeding motorists there do not seem to be any penalties that will stop the 20% or so non law abiding citizens, they do not care if they are spotted.
My real anoyance if the loud speaker systems in some cars, this seems to be directed out of the vehicle and you can hear them a long way away. I do not think this is even illegal? But if it was it would make no difference to most of the,
Sue N
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Posted on Tuesday, 26 August, 2003 - 12:51 pm:   

Some of you may know that there was an assault in Manor Mount last month when a resident crossing the road to his own house dared to put his hand out to stop a car driving down the road the wrong way. The car screached to a halt and the drive and passenger got out and assaulted the resident leaving him bleeding and lying across the road.

Despite the efforts of other residents cars continued to drive down the wrong way even though there was someone injured.

Any ideas of action or changes that could be implemented to prevent cars coming down the hill and provoking such incidents?
The Womble
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Posted on Tuesday, 26 August, 2003 - 05:13 pm:   

It is very shocking that anyone should get so worked up over somnething like that. If they see fit to assault someone for that, then it is presumably the same sort of animal that goes around mugging and stabbing people. Did anyone get the registration? Can we have an update on whether we have got anywhere with the council?
Jim Dowd MP
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Posted on Tuesday, 26 August, 2003 - 08:50 pm:   

As the MP for the area, but also as a local resident, I am more than aware of the problems that Manor Mount/David's Road present. In trying to find a solution you have to remember that providing the fastest, all directions, routes for the ambulances from the station at the bottom of the road is the priority. Equally, reasonable access to Sainsbury is also a significant factor. Even so, having grappled with this issue for more than the past two decades, I have it as an item for my next meeting with Steve Bullock, the Mayor of Lewisham (also a local resident) in early September. If any of those with such imaginative cyber pseudonyms care to contact me by more traditional means, I will be more than happy to convey any information arising from it.

Best Wishes

Jim Dowd MP
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Posted on Wednesday, 03 September, 2003 - 01:54 pm:   

With the expansion of Sainsburys, which I fully support, the use of Manor Mount and David Road will only increase.
The additional traffic lights on London Road have significantly slowed down traffic on London Road over the last two decades, and the narrowing of the road to enhance the bus stop has only slowed down traffic further.
I find it incredible that our MP, and councilor before that, has not managed to improve the situation over the last two decades, and has only managed to watch the situation get worse.

I hope that Jim Dowd will report back here on any plans or proposals he and Steve Bullock manage to reach in their meeting this month.
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Posted on Saturday, 15 November, 2003 - 06:07 pm:   

I submitted a message on the Hit and Run- Manor Mount subject forum before seeing this one- I outline my own , similar ,experiences and suggested that the next Forest Hill Steering Group meeting on Dec 11th be a constructive place to raise this issue publicly. RM
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Posted on Thursday, 20 November, 2003 - 05:19 pm:   

This is a message for Jim Dowd MP.
Jim, there have been a number of requests for an update from you on this, and you will know who I am as I have also emailed you privately on two recent occasions.! Would you kindly provide an update to this website and also a response to my letter.
This matter won't go away. Would you also please confirm whether you/ Steve Bullock are intending to attend the Steering Group meeting on 11th December, which would be an ideal opportunity to discuss this issue.

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