|Posted on Thursday, 16 March, 2006 - 02:21 pm: |
Don't know whether I should put this in the new shops thread. But following news that McD's was closing some UK branches, the Forest Hill branch now has a sign in front of it saying they are shutting down on March 18th.
I wonder what will replace it?
|Posted on Thursday, 16 March, 2006 - 03:04 pm: |
I really don't care as this is one (probably the only) business which is worse than an empty shop unit. It draws in an undesirable clientele from a much wider radius than you would realise (snob? me?) and results in a huge amount of litter, both in the immediate area all over the greasy pavement outside and into our garden a good half-mile away. Presumably the walking time is about the same as that to eat your chips and burger; I admit to having the odd one myself but there just seems to be something about most of the people who go there that makes them unable to use a bin.
|Posted on Thursday, 16 March, 2006 - 04:18 pm: |
I agree with Hilltop, this is great news - I for one won't miss McDonald's clientele parking up behind my flat, going to get their Big Mac meals, then dumping their rubbish in the street or our communal car park before driving off. McDonald's packaging isn't the only blight on Forest Hill's high street, but losing it will certainly make a difference to the amount of litter there is. I just hope it's not another fast food chain that moves in.
|Posted on Thursday, 16 March, 2006 - 06:35 pm: |
I've had a very stressful day but what brilliant news. Many of my points have been made, but I heard a Radio London discussion with one of the McLibel people and this is now out on dvd. Don't care how McD serves a useful purpose and that I am being a food fascist.
Hopefully the Capitol will be next and turn into a trendy arts complex with all these new people who will be moving here from Hoxton once the East London line is completed. Hmm rubbing shoulders with Paul Morley and Tracy Emin.
|Posted on Thursday, 16 March, 2006 - 06:51 pm: |
This is hard. Some people enjoyed the food. Surely an area should cater for all types of punters.
What about the people who are losing their jobs
What about another empty shot front.
|Posted on Thursday, 16 March, 2006 - 08:19 pm: |
When the McDonald's opened in Forest Hill it featured in a TV commercial. Think it was in the mid 80's.
|Posted on Thursday, 16 March, 2006 - 08:38 pm: |
Some people enjoyed the food? So what? Some people used to enjoy bear baiting. Some people enjoy sandpapering their sensitive bits. Some people enjoy throwing their waste in my garden. I'm sure burgers are still available in Forest Hill, but let their palates be educated!
An area should cater for all punters? Including ones who pollute our neighbourhood?
As for the jobs, McJobs, shmackjobs - it's hardly the closure of the pit.
Weak arguments Brian. The net effect of this place on the area is negative. Hence its absence will improve the area, even if there is just a void in its place.
|Posted on Thursday, 16 March, 2006 - 11:00 pm: |
They might make it into a Pret a Manger- after all they own this chain too. A much better prospect.
MacDonalds is responsible for amongst many things, environmental destruction , bad teeth, bad health, lots of rubbish in the streets, and a general americanisation of the worst possible kind. Food to go? Time to go!
|Posted on Friday, 17 March, 2006 - 07:40 am: |
Small business note. McDs does not own Pret. they took an investment in Pret in return for helping out with distribution logistics for Pret moving into the American market. McD's has 50 years of dealing with the Teamsters Union in the US. They may made low grade food, but they are a high grade multi-national corporation. Pret had been trying to get into the NewYork market for years and was failing. McD (as a company, not as a fast food outlet) took out a shareholder interst in Pret.
I doubt McDonalds would have a say in whether Pret plans on opening a branch in Forest Hill.
I'm worried that, that particular retail space has a high rent (which McD's could afford to pay) and which a more interesting outlet could not.
|Posted on Friday, 17 March, 2006 - 08:00 am: |
Perhaps Woolworths might buy it back!!!
|Posted on Friday, 17 March, 2006 - 08:20 am: |
It seems like the perfect opportunity for Pizza Express to get into Forest Hill. Just the right position, close to the future tube station and with improved access to the car park behind Sainsburys, and the right size for a successful restaurant. It is about time they came to Forest Hill, but may be I'm just dreaming.
|Posted on Friday, 17 March, 2006 - 09:44 am: |
Michael, Pizza Express is a franchise - now's your opportunity to put your money where your mouth is!
And so say all of us.
|Posted on Friday, 17 March, 2006 - 11:55 am: |
Not any more it isn't. The way is therefore free for Dave to recreate the lounge of the Moor Park Tavern and offer vegan cuisine. Or whatever.
|Posted on Friday, 17 March, 2006 - 12:58 pm: |
Hilltop this is have a go at McD (or celebrate their demise) not take the Mick out of BD thread.
And as you know the Vegan republic of UDB is on Wood Vale, not London Road.
where's your info on Pizza Express anyway?
|Posted on Friday, 17 March, 2006 - 01:38 pm: |
Hello Hill Top
Some people probably happy top earn at McD rather than not at all.
As for punters surely there should be some places for the underclass to go.
|Posted on Friday, 17 March, 2006 - 02:22 pm: |
BD - I had a look on their website. But perhaps we should sally forth from the heights to claim a bit of Lebensraum for the republic of UDB on London Road too, and spread our liberal ways.
As for the McJobs, I think there is probably ample alternative employment elsewhere - heaven forbid we should encourage investment in training for skilled jobs though; as for dining facilities for the non-gourmets we are not short of chicken shops and the like and I'd prefer it if any "underclass" investigated options in their own neighbourhoods before travelling to ours. Being the trash food Mecca of SE London is not a particularly sought-after accolade.
|Posted on Friday, 17 March, 2006 - 03:37 pm: |
I am rather surprised you think that none of the ubderclass reside in SE 23. You must live a sheltered life amongst the executive limos on the hill.
I note your request for skilled jobs. I agree 100% but most of them have gone or are going to Asia.
|Posted on Friday, 17 March, 2006 - 09:31 pm: |
I'm pleased to see it go, but what will it be replaced with? Please not another trendy coffee shop like Starbucks. East Dulwich is getting it's first Coffee Nero in Lordship Lane, which is bad enough.
Personally I can't stand the Favourite Fried Chicken shop next door which attracts all kinds of characters. The only real problem that McD's had was the mum's bringing in their little blighters for their £2 happy meals.
|Posted on Saturday, 18 March, 2006 - 02:49 pm: |
Perhaps a Lidl.
|Posted on Saturday, 18 March, 2006 - 03:49 pm: |
They should have sold up to Sainsburys and let them develop the place while they were at it. The building is ugly, and the upstairs looks unused since the '60s. That reminds me, anyone know if the new unit next to sainsburys is let yet? If so, what will it be?
|Posted on Saturday, 18 March, 2006 - 04:28 pm: |
I for one would welcome Starbucks or Costa C . Not so keen on Cafe N as they have smoking areas.
Great places to relax with courtesy papers etc
|Posted on Saturday, 18 March, 2006 - 08:24 pm: |
Plastic coffee for plastic people.....
Am I alone in despising the homogenised, americanised high sreets that have for some time been foisted upon us?
For work, I travel up and down this country (as well as worldwide).
It depresses me not to be able to tell where I am because everywhere looks the same. Same stores, same format, same insipid marketing formula.
A recent trip to China showed me that it doesn't have to be this way - But even that is rapidly changing - for the worse.
If we do not buy it - they (the multi national buisnesses) will not survive - It's as simple as that - we, the consumers, DO have the power to dictate - it just takes a little will (and wallet) power to mould our environment the way we would want it.
|Posted on Saturday, 18 March, 2006 - 09:53 pm: |
Hope we don't get a Starbucks - it's just overpriced froth - hardly any discernible coffee in there. We need an independent cafe that knows how to make hot coffee that's all. Whoever takes over the site is in a good spot to make a real go of it and get passing trade from Sainsburys.
|Posted on Sunday, 19 March, 2006 - 11:30 am: |
The good thing about Starbucks is that it is an indicator of economic health - they need a certain spend profile to justify their coming. However I doubt if they will come here. We have had loads of independent cafes- remember Blue Mountain and the deli opposite Sainsburys- but they don't last. I also hate homogenised High Streets, but think you this can only be avoided in high value areas, such as Primrose Hill, Highgate,etc.
|Posted on Sunday, 19 March, 2006 - 12:07 pm: |
Blue Mountain was in the wrong place - you don't get passing trade there and it's not central. I'd like a Pizza Express in Forest Hill - all the pizza places we have are takeaways.
|Posted on Sunday, 19 March, 2006 - 01:14 pm: |
I don't see an independent cafe opening on such a big site anyway. Blue Mountain was definitely in the wrong place as I think a branch is still open in Dulwich. Btw, support your new local florists - I went in the other day and was very impressed. I hope she does well.
|Posted on Monday, 20 March, 2006 - 07:02 am: |
Speaking as a plastic person I think some of you may be a bit over optimistic on what might replave McDonalds , if indeed anything replaces it.
Could be someone knows the facts but I would not be surprised if we have to look at an empty outlet for some time.
But I am sure many of you greatly prefer that than the previous usage
|Posted on Monday, 20 March, 2006 - 10:54 am: |
I believe Brian speaks the truth about the optimism; also, would it be so bad to have a cosy spot where professionals & mums with tots alike could co-exist and even relax with a cup of coffee? Obviously we're not getting that with some of the independent places. And an extra shot in there so you can actually taste the coffee only costs a few pence extra.
|Posted on Monday, 20 March, 2006 - 11:41 am: |
Absolutely agree with Calvin on this one. I would add that having one (or more) multinationals on your High Street does not mean other independent shops cannot suceed. This is just an excuse for people who fear proper competition. For example, Northcote Road in Battersea. Lots of small independents and big chains side by side.
|Posted on Monday, 20 March, 2006 - 12:48 pm: |
Thanks Calvin and Simon I was beginning to think I was the only person who thought people that wanted to had a right to go into McDonalds , Starbucks etc
|Posted on Monday, 20 March, 2006 - 01:27 pm: |
In 1992 I spent a very interesting 3 weeks in Budapest, shortly after the collapse of communism. I was with international colleagues from Croatia, Malta, Greece, Romania and other out of the way places. Most evenings I would say let’s explore and find an interesting restaurant. There were dozens of options, generally very cheap (even some veggie restaurants). My colleagues would go to McDonalds. Why?? Because “I didn’t understand”, they did not have McDonalds in their country, they knew exactly what to expect and thought that it was the most exciting place to go. . And that was with the incredible wealth of alternatives that Budapest offered. It saddens me that McD’s have that level of global influence (and we can list many others), and these weren’t the underclass we tend to sneer at. I usually ate alone. But spoiled my moral high ground by having a snickers ice cream on top of the Buda hills!
As for the kids’ argument, there are alternatives if one can be bothered to look around
|Posted on Monday, 20 March, 2006 - 02:52 pm: |
I'm not having a go at chains in general - but there have been particular concerns expressed about our local McDonalds.
And of course there's no reason why parents and kids plus lone adults can't eat together in the same place, as long as the non-parents are prepared to accept the noise it seems. I've stopped going to the Horniman cafe for that reason - that's up to me but it would be nice to have other options besides pubs or traditional caffs in the area. I agree there have been examples of snobbery on this board - once from someone who objected to the launderette and Mackays as I recall. But I think people here are just expressing some reasonable concerns.
|Posted on Tuesday, 21 March, 2006 - 09:38 pm: |
Did the big Macs have the courtesy to talk to Lewisham about their plans to leave an eyesore on London Road? Do you know anything Cllr W? I suppose there's no chance of it reverting to the old Woolies but I recently discovered a Woolies hidden away at Lee Green which seems to survive on about three customers every time I've visited so far. They do at least sell black tights as opposed to the seemingly all pervasive version of "barely black" available in most supermarkets these days!
|Posted on Wednesday, 22 March, 2006 - 07:21 am: |
Poor McDonalds. Most of the people on the site soon to be cheering when they were closing and suddenly thinking it would be replaced at once by by a privately run coffee shop to keep the rif raf out.
As I suspected what has happened we now have an eyesore.
Hopefully someone will open a new shop soon. Councillor do you know of any plans
|Posted on Wednesday, 22 March, 2006 - 09:43 am: |
Erm, no, I said I'd prefer an eyesore - as the overall impact would be less negative. Eyesores do not draw an undesirable clientele from right across SE London or produce loads of waste to end up in my garden.
|Posted on Wednesday, 22 March, 2006 - 11:00 am: |
what is your opinion on the fact that East Dulwich has many more nice shops than Forest Hill?
I still cannot understand why....
|Posted on Wednesday, 22 March, 2006 - 11:21 am: |
More money in SE 22 I guess.
We do have a bra fitting shop, what more do you want
|Posted on Wednesday, 22 March, 2006 - 11:23 am: |
Re Hill Top
Seeing their are Mcdonalds at Catford , Penge and Upper Norwood , I find your comments that people came from all over SE London quite amazing
|Posted on Wednesday, 22 March, 2006 - 02:22 pm: |
Well, that's the whole SE covered then, isn't it Brian...it's a good couple of miles to the nearest in other words. I speak from experience, actually, knowing people from Kidbrooke (not classing these particular ones as undesirable however) who considered it quite a landmark and destination.
|Posted on Wednesday, 22 March, 2006 - 02:28 pm: |
It's also been covered before that E Dulwich has a younger and more affluent population, and that Lordship Lane is hugely more suited to commerce than a neverending strip of shops all the way along (NB) one side of a road backing onto a railway, plus a couple on the World's Busiest Corner, plus a few up London Road, plus a few more on Stansted Rd, plus a few more on Brockley Rise, plus yet more the other side of the station, totalling about 2-3 as many units as you need and interspersed with a few units blighted by Sainsbury or general untidiness. All in all - "HOW NOT TO HAVE YOUR HIGH STREET".
|Posted on Wednesday, 22 March, 2006 - 03:20 pm: |
I am not doubting you but finding it unbelievable that people would travel from Kidbrook to SE 23 for MacDonalds. They must have passed half a dozen plus.
Mind you if they came from The Ferrier anything would be an improvement
|Posted on Wednesday, 22 March, 2006 - 03:37 pm: |
My opinion is that the closure of McDonalds is a good thing, I have lived in FH for 2 years now but never entered McDonalds.
The crowd outside was hoodies, which is definitely not good.
Also, McDonalds have been closing all around UK, as a result of people eating more healthy food (anyone has watched "Supersize me"?)
So the probelm is not just Forest Hill.
Obviously is not going to be easy to find a decent business to fill that large property.
In the last feww weeks The Evening Standard has been talking about how the local shops are in trouble all over London, last night they were talking about St John's Wood, which is a very rich area, yet lots of local business are closing down there too.
I personally believe that a nice butcher, bakery or fishmonger would be nice in Forest Hill.
Or a proper Pizzeria with food fire oven and all, but as an italian I would love to open such a business myself.
Fianlly , for what concern SE22, I do not believe that it is more affluent and younger that Forest Hill. Property aren't exactly that cheaper in Forest Hill, and at commuting time Forest Hill station is full of young people, all seem to be working in central London.
|Posted on Tuesday, 28 March, 2006 - 03:44 pm: |
The fact is McDonalds was not getting many customers in the last 18 months. You may remember that the restuarant for a short period was closing at 8pm around 2004/05.