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Tube plans

Author Message
Philip Pound
Joined N/A
Posted on Sunday, 16 February, 2003 - 12:24 am:   

There was an article in The Times on Friday 14th February 2003 which again made reference to the possibility of the Underground extending to Forest Hill and Sydenham by 2006. Does anyone know if this is really happening and, if so, why does nobody seem to know much about it?
Dale
Joined N/A
Posted on Tuesday, 18 February, 2003 - 01:55 pm:   

I had heard that it was one of the things put on hold with the latest announcement of 'We don't have enough money for transport projects' by the Strategic Rail Authority....I could be wrong. In fact I very much hope so. I also have heard that the soil on the route involved would make the project very difficult indeed....Anybody else.....?
Andy
Joined N/A
Posted on Tuesday, 18 February, 2003 - 03:43 pm:   

I last phoned the East London line project team in June 2001, and at the time the extension was planned for 2005/6. Their number is (or was in June 2001!) 020 7918 4400 if anyone fancies giving them a call, or email: customerservices@email.lul.co.uk for contact details.
ken
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Posted on Thursday, 27 February, 2003 - 01:34 pm:   

its now planned for 2008
Mitch
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Posted on Thursday, 27 February, 2003 - 10:58 pm:   

Details (not taking account of the latest delays) are at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/east_london_line.shtml
Bob
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Posted on Friday, 28 February, 2003 - 09:44 am:   

The tube map on TfL's website is out of date.

I received the below email last week from Transport for London about the new plans to extend the line to Clapham Junction and not to Wimbledon via East Dulwich as originally planned. The eastern extension will still go to West Croydon via Forest Hill.

"The decision to operate the extended East London Line to Clapham Junction rather than Wimbledon was taken by the SRA and is part of the proposal for which they submitted a Business Case to Government in September 2002 - approval of which is still awaited. A variety of operational factors related to future services in South London influenced their decision.

"Nevertheless, Transport for London supports the decision. The Mayor's Transport Strategy included the extension of the East London Line to Clapham
Junction on the grounds that this would facilitate much needed local regeneration along the route and foster greater social inclusion. Extending the service to Clapham Junction also helps develop another important part of
the Transport Strategy, the Orbirail concept of enhanced rail services along the inner orbital rail network (North, South, East and West London Lines), by increasing the number of services along the South London Line.

"TfL are anxious to see the current proposal implemented as soon as possible. This proposal is not, however, seen as the end state. TfL is keen to see the further development of National Rail services in London into what the Mayor's Transport Strategy describes as London Metro (of which Orbirail is part) and is currently working with the SRA on developing South London Metro
services. TfL will be working to bring improved rail services and other improved public transport services to areas of London currently relatively
poorly served."

Regards,

Transport for London
February 2003
Adrian
Joined N/A
Posted on Wednesday, 16 April, 2003 - 11:34 pm:   

What does all that mean? I'm none the wiser.
Trainspotter
Joined N/A
Posted on Thursday, 17 April, 2003 - 10:47 am:   

My reading is that it is in theory still "on"; work has started on the Northern extension but this is really just token work, because planning permission would have expired if they hadn't started.
What I have picked up on is the idea being put around of the "SLM" - South London Metro - which I reckon is what we will end up seeing first. This is a plan to increase the frequency of the overground to a train every 5 mins or so across S London, with more routes across S London too rather than just the occasional one to Streatham Hill / Tulse Hill / Victoria as at present.
Rob
Joined N/A
Posted on Thursday, 17 April, 2003 - 11:26 am:   

Here's the current situation with the East London Line, according to the tfl website. Basically, the planning permission for the ELL extension relied on demolishing Bishopsgate Good Yard. This is being disputed in court this week.

"The project has been delayed by a number of legal challenges to London Underground's powers and the exercise of those powers in respect of the Bishopsgate Goodsyard. The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport has also dealt with applications to 'list' both the Goodsyard and the Braithwaite Viaduct which forms part of it. These resulted in the Braithwaite Viaduct being listed as a Grade 2 listed building in March 2002.

"In April 2003. further legal action against London Underground and the London Boroughs of Tower Hamlets and Hackney, threatens the future of the project. If this can be resolved quickly SRA funding is available to continue preparatory works and execute a detailed, but time-constrained, programme up to the procurement of a contractor to build the railway. If the planning issues surrounding the Bishopsgate Goodsyard can not be resolved, the SRA funds are likely to be diverted into projects that can be executed quickly."
matt
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Posted on Thursday, 17 April, 2003 - 11:52 am:   

Is there anywhere where south londoners can register our disapproval of the delay in the east london line extension (e.g. through petitions)? it seems that the small minority in favour of preserving bishopsgate goodsyard are having a disproportional say in the debate and it would be useful if we could back up TFL by showing that their plans have the support of the vast majority of us.
Mr Monkey
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Posted on Tuesday, 22 April, 2003 - 11:21 am:   

To me, it seems absurd that the preservation of redundant Victorian RAILWAY structures should do so much prevent the development of badly needed modern RAILWAY infrastructure! It is hardly as if they would have been so sentimental. Another one that gets my goat is the ongoing debate about saving Borough Market - much of the roof etc is in fact architectural salvage from elsewhere. So the redevelopment of London Bridge Station, with extra tracks so there is enough capacity for trains to run through to Blackfriars/CannonSt/Charing X never happened. So THE ENTIRE TRANSPORT SYSTEM for Kent, Sussex and SE London is hamstrung because some **** wants to go and buy some organic goats cheese on the weekend! Again, Borough is an area whose character is entirely shaped by the railways, agrowing up around the viaducts - and in which selfish interests now choke the development and growth of that railway.
Mr Monkey recently read that the main Bishopsgate protester got punched in the street and came home to find his cat dead on the doorstep! Whilst Mr Monkey can hardly condone violence of this nature, Mr Monkey nevertheless thinks that the protester is a misguided individual.
matt
Joined N/A
Posted on Tuesday, 22 April, 2003 - 11:32 am:   

Mr. Monkey is preaching to the converted. What's even more baffling is the involvement of royalty using their idle moments at taxpayers' expense to stymie railway development desperately needed by us unfortunates who need to get to and from our jobs!
michael
Joined N/A
Posted on Tuesday, 22 April, 2003 - 04:06 pm:   

There are really two seperate projects to extend the East London Line, one going north and one going south.
The delays at Bishopsgate should not be allowed to delay the work required to the southern extention.
However, this would lead to public money being invested in Forest Hill, without any benefit to North Londoners. I can't see anybody in power allowing this to happen!
If you want an underground station move to north east, north west, or south west London. We don't count.
bogey
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Posted on Tuesday, 22 April, 2003 - 07:05 pm:   

South East London's time will come, in the end, maybe next millenuim.
Siobhan
Joined N/A
Posted on Tuesday, 22 April, 2003 - 11:10 pm:   

Could complain to the Ken at city hall given that he is "determined" apparently for the east london line to be built. Thats what I'll do
Daniel
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Posted on Tuesday, 29 April, 2003 - 11:14 am:   

Although the East London Line extension WILL happen eventually, and maybe even by their new 2008 target date, it won't actually be part of the tube network.

The Strategic Rail Authority have made it very clear that the existing tube line will become part of the national rail network and a SouthCentral-style franchisee appointed. So it's going to end up more like the Richmond-North Woolwich Silverlink than the District Line, and we probably won't be on the tube map either (which is what would really boost our house prices, lets face it).
matt
Joined N/A
Posted on Wednesday, 30 April, 2003 - 10:13 pm:   

I think that's overly pessimistic. Both the Tramlink and Dockland rails are privately run (maybe not well, but that's besides the point) and are, to all intents and purposes, on the tube network. The fact that network rail will be responsible for the rail lines post-completion rather than Amey or Balford Beatty who are now responsible for the rest of the Underground is, frankly, a blessing as we'll probably be the only part of the network still standing in five years time...assuming of course it eventually goes ahead.
matt
Joined N/A
Posted on Friday, 02 May, 2003 - 05:34 pm:   

word is that the injunction has been lifted today and the work will be going ahead...now that hrh has turned his attention to nanotechnology
Barry
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Posted on Friday, 02 May, 2003 - 06:07 pm:   

The following appeared in the ES tonight & suggests that the northern extension will now go ahead:

A High Court judge today signalled his approval for the £600million East London Tube line extension.
Mr Justice Collins said "there can be no justification for any further delay" to the plans, which have been beset for more than two years by legal challenges from protesters fighting to save the historic Bishopsgate goods yards from demolition.
Although finding that the project should have been subject to a local authority planning agreement, he stressed there had been "substantial compliance" with planning rules and council backing "can and should be swiftly reconsidered".
He added: "It is difficult to see how it could conceivably be said that the desirability of retaining the goods yard should outweigh the need for an immediate progression of the Tube line extension."
Protesters had obtained an injunction after Hackney and Tower Hamlets councils gave London Underground the goahead. Outside court, Peter Boxell, of the Strategic Rail Authority, said work could start on demolishing the yard "within a couple of weeks".
He said: "Today's decision is critical because if we got any more unnecessary delays the project is in deep jeopardy."
The extension will link the line to Dalston Junction and create four new stations.

The southern extension will then follow
Mike
Joined N/A
Posted on Tuesday, 18 May, 2004 - 09:59 am:   

I'd heard it was on hold so that budget could be diverted to London's bid for the 2012 Olympics.

So, "Good for London" obviously means "Good for Central and East London; who cares about the South".
Les
Joined N/A
Posted on Tuesday, 18 May, 2004 - 10:59 am:   

Also see the other thread on the 'East London Line'.

The notes above say the legal barrier is down. The next hurdle appears to be funding, since there's a discussion between Livingstone's Transport for London and the SRA.

Perhaps the ELL is the 'Ever Later & Later'!


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