| Author |
Message |
Cathy
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Saturday, 05 June, 2004 - 01:33 pm: | |
I'm told by a reliable source actually connected with the redevelopment scheme that work is now unlikely to start until Spring/Summer 2005.
Can any councillors or officials out confirm this?
thanks |
elizabeth
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Sunday, 06 June, 2004 - 09:00 am: | |
one of the staff mentioned that asbestos was found in the vacant shop next door , as work has already started there- however it would be good to have confirmation. This store is falling to bits, so hopefully not yet another year?? |
marianne
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Monday, 07 June, 2004 - 03:38 pm: | |
Last week a member of staff told me the work would commence in August! She said they are all being relocated to other stores for 10 weeks, although how they expect to do all the promised work in ten weeks beats me! She mentioned the asbestos found in an adjoining shop and said all the empty shops were being knocked down. |
cathy
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Tuesday, 08 June, 2004 - 09:35 am: | |
The person who told me it was put back to 2005 was adamant this was the case, 'cos apparently it's been delayed by further planning issues. We shall see!
I understand the redevelopment is based along the same lines as the new Clapham Sainsburys. Having never been I can't comment on the facilities there. |
Rob
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Tuesday, 08 June, 2004 - 09:46 am: | |
Cathy - I thought that planning had been approved on 13 May. Do you know what the new planning issues are? |
Cathy
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Tuesday, 08 June, 2004 - 02:34 pm: | |
Unfortunately I don't so I'll get some more details. I hope my friend is wrong about this, but he seemed to think there were new obstacles to deal with which could hold things up.
I did ask for any councillors or officials to confirm this but so far no response. |
Pete
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Wednesday, 09 June, 2004 - 12:08 pm: | |
Can anyone confirm whether Cathy's fears about the development's delay are correct? |
Hilltop General
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Wednesday, 09 June, 2004 - 01:40 pm: | |
Wrote to Gary Pleasants - the PR contact - but no response as yet.
Sure I won't be the only one to be pretty ****** off if it is delayed further. It is a blight on the town centre. |
Brian
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 10 June, 2004 - 06:50 am: | |
I agree
No wonder we cannot build any major projects in UK if it takes this long to sort our planning OK. If council at fault they should be ashamed of themselves , if Sainsbury then perhaps we should boycott store.
Who is actually to blaim
The old buildings which are to be demolished I would think by now could fall down without much help. |
John2
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 10 June, 2004 - 08:54 am: | |
Wrote to Gary as well and so far Diddly Squat! |
Susan
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 10 June, 2004 - 09:45 am: | |
According to Gary's voicemail, he's currently out of the office. I suggest a call to a Cllr if anyone has their numbers.
Would I be too sceptical to suggest that we won't have a reply till after the local elections? |
Cathy
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 10 June, 2004 - 10:11 am: | |
dear folks, I don't want to say too much because I could get the person who told me into trouble.
But my friend was certain that things have been delayed yet again, and are "still pending final sign off". |
Rob
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Friday, 11 June, 2004 - 10:12 am: | |
I spoke to a very nice person at the planning office this morning. Here's the current situation:
1. legal agreements have been approved
2. HSA agreements have been approved
3. Sainsbury's are very keen to start asap
4. one or two elements to agree on land agreement
5. indications from discussions with the Council suggest that the development will start this year, not next
6. a few more months in the scheme of four years isn't that long to wait
7. unfounded rumours on this site definitely don't help - both the Council and Sainsbury's have read these messages and it probably makes matters worse, not better
8. if Sainsbury's and the Council do read these messages, I would urge them to think about future communications with the local community. Rumours only circulate following a lack of facts
9. thanks to everyone who has worked so hard on this project. We're nearly there...
Hope that helps. |
cllr David Whiting
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Friday, 11 June, 2004 - 11:13 am: | |
Bob
A very helpful posting, and that is my understanding of the situation.
So far as the Council is concerned, I don't think you should worry about our response to the postings, and I am sure that Sainsburys have broad shoulders too. I would, however, urge residents to contact the planning office rather than listening to gossip.
So far as gossip is concerned, I am less than completely happy about intermediating false rumours. Therefore, while I will always attempt to ensure that facts are available, I shall expect to know the source of rumours before I deal with them specifically.
Communication has been a problem for us in the last few weeks during the election for reasons of electoral law and regulation. The advice I have received would have made it difficult for me to publish material which might lead to my becoming embroiled in discussion about this controversial local issue, and this would cover posting on this site to refute some of the rumours flying around.
I intended to deal with this matter this morning, but your post has saved me the effort.
regards
d |
Cathy
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Saturday, 12 June, 2004 - 12:16 am: | |
I'm just a little dismayed to get this reaction. It certainly was not my intention to scaremonger or circulate unfounded rumours. The person who told me does genuinely have close connections with the scheme, or I wouldn't have been irresponsible enough to litter this board with fanciful suggestions.
At least it has clarified matters once and for all. |
Cathy
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Saturday, 12 June, 2004 - 12:23 am: | |
Besides which, if you see the message that started this thread, I merely asked for confirmation of the facts. I don't think that is such a terrible thing to ask, do you? And given that there have already been delays to this scheme it was reasonable to make some kind of enquiry about it's progress.
This being a community website, I'd like to feel I can express concerns about issues affecting the local area without being treated in such a dismissive and somewhat high-handed fashion. |
Rob
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Monday, 14 June, 2004 - 09:23 am: | |
Hi
I received this message from Cllr Wise on the development.
Cllr Wise: "I have been out of action for the last few weeks, yet it is my understanding that from 14/5/04 consultation between Lewisham Council
and Sainsbury's re some of the finer details relating to dust minimisation and keeping the surrounding highways clean during the refurbishment works should have taken place recently, and that they will be on site shortly and the projected works will take 56 weeks to
complete. I shall confirm a start date with our planning department and get back to you."
Cathy - you were absolutely right to raise your concerns. As I said in my previous email, there has been a lack of information on this development. I don't understand why Sainsbury's didn't create a community board in its store with latest information. Anyway, hopefully we're nearly there. I'll post Cllr Wise's follow-up message as soon as I get it. |
Cathy
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Monday, 14 June, 2004 - 08:17 pm: | |
Rob, thanks. I appreciate that.
56 weeks? In which case it seems that my friend was correct in saying it would be with us late next year. It rather contradicts the Sainsbury's staff view (see recent posting) that works would take ten weeks. |
Hilltop General
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Tuesday, 15 June, 2004 - 01:09 pm: | |
10 weeks? Somebody's been watching too much Groundforce |
Worried of Forest Hill
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 17 June, 2004 - 11:44 am: | |
Again we are getting confused messages and information about this key development. The Council should have done much more to keep residents up dated. More importantly they should have put more pressure on Sainsbury to get going on their site, years ago.
It is an indictment of both the Council and Sainsbury that the site has been undeveloped for so long, leaving a squalid gap in the London Road shop fronts. Sainsbury in particular ought to be ashamed of themselves. Their willingness to neglect the site for so long is a civic disgrace and appears to reveal a complete lack of concern on their part for the local community which provides them with their profits. |
Cathy
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 17 June, 2004 - 11:51 am: | |
So Sainsbury's staff are saying ten weeks starting in August, my friend said it would probably be near completion/completed late next year. The official line is 56 weeks but the start date is still tbc - depending on issues relating to "dust minimisation etc".
I think my friend was right after all.
I hope in the meantime, Sainsburys and local officials continue to provide information and are prepared to fully explain the reasons behind any further delays. |
KR
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 17 June, 2004 - 11:56 am: | |
Hi Worried of Forest Hill, I completely endorse what you are saying.
If the local council are that annoyed about the spread of "gossip" on community websites like this one, I'd like to see them do much more to enlighten all of us about what's really going on. |
CB
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Friday, 18 June, 2004 - 06:10 pm: | |
I agree 100 percent with Worried of Forest Hill's comments. I am utterly, utterly fed up with the endless delays to this project. It is indeed a complete disgrace and has for years stopped Forest Hill developing into the thriving town centre that it should and could be. |
john2
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Monday, 21 June, 2004 - 10:12 am: | |
recieved this reply in relation to my request for information from Sainsbury's (or their PR company ). I have asked them for more info.
Dear John
Many thanks for your enquiry. It is our hope that the building work will start in July. I will inform you as soon as I hear a confirmed start date.
Kind Regards,
Louise |
John2
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Tuesday, 22 June, 2004 - 02:39 pm: | |
Following the receipt of the above email I responded to Louise to ask if she was able to give a more definitive date and to see if she was able to offer more info on what form the building work process will take and this was her response:
Dear John
Not at the present time, but I will inform you of all developments as soon as I get confirmation.
Kind Regards,
Louise |
Alan
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Tuesday, 29 June, 2004 - 10:41 am: | |
Having read all the gossip and the statements from the councillors, would it not be possible to pester Sainsbury's to put up some firm information in the store for the benefit of both customers and employees?
The building in its present state is an eyesore -- could it possibly be having an effect on local house prices? |
John2
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Tuesday, 29 June, 2004 - 11:44 am: | |
I have tried that but it seems the last people to hear will be the poor old employees of Sainsbury's |
Councillor Susan Wise
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Wednesday, 30 June, 2004 - 01:27 pm: | |
We are all(especially your ward councillors!) at FH very keen for the refurbishment of Sainsbury's to progress. Unfortunately, despite my frequent chasing up of our officers (who are moving things forward as fast as they can) for a date for that work to begin, as of today we still do not have a confirmed date. As soon as I have that information, I will put it on this website. Thank you all for the comments expressed on this issue. |
John2
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Wednesday, 30 June, 2004 - 02:01 pm: | |
Thank you Councillor Wise. Let's hope it happens quite soon. |
NR
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 01 July, 2004 - 08:03 pm: | |
I don't want to contribute additional depressing news on the Sainsbury’s saga but I just watched the news about Sir Peter Davies resignation as Chairman of Sainsbury’s and apparently his replacement is shelving all new store developments! I am amazed that Sainsburys have been allowed to own and neglect such a large unsightly chunk of the high street for so long. |
Brian
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Friday, 02 July, 2004 - 12:49 pm: | |
I with NR. This is hardly a new store devolpment it has been in the pipeline longer than north sea oil.
If for dome reason the store update is shelved or posponed then the council should force them to do something with the adjacent decayed and dangerous properties owned by them |
Hilltop General
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Friday, 02 July, 2004 - 03:35 pm: | |
Great news...would tie in with all silence with which my enquiries to them have been met.
Well three cheers to Sainsbury for their procrastination and general bad neighbourliness. They are the commercial equivalent of the bloke next door who keeps leaving mattresses in his garden. If there were much of a choice I would stop shopping there and encourage others to do the same. |
B
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Friday, 02 July, 2004 - 04:20 pm: | |
Sell it to Waitrose? Well, a girl can dream can't she?! |
j
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Monday, 05 July, 2004 - 12:41 am: | |
Is it acceptable that they operate a virtual monopoly in our area? The Forest Hill store seems in such a state of disrepair (broken doors, lifts, floors, ceilings, staff etc)that the council should step in and close it down; they could then get their act together or allow somebody else the privilege. |
CR
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Tuesday, 06 July, 2004 - 09:58 pm: | |
Dear all, I refer you to one of the councillor's messages on a related thread.
"Following the completion of several legal agreements, planning consent for the new Forest Hill store was issued to Sainsburys on 13th May, and I understand that they hope to be on site within a few weeks. The building programme will take just over a year, with a closure of the store for a few weeks only.
Residents in the immediate vicinity will be consulted and kept informed about the building work programme. My colleagues, Cllrs Peter Dawson and Susan Wise, and I will be available if required."
Councillor Whiting, is this still the situation as you understand it? Concern has been expressed on this message board that Sainsbury's have gone very quiet about all this. |
Pat Trembath
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Wednesday, 07 July, 2004 - 03:13 pm: | |
Info rec'd from Planning Dept:
"It is envisaged the works will take around 56 weeks with the following indicative work programme:
Week 1-2 Site set up and preliminary works
Week 1-8 Demolition and site clearance of 6 no. derelict properties 30-40 London Road
Week 38-42 Demolition and site clearance of the existing staircore and liftshaft located at the rear
Week 8-11 Piling work
Week 11-45 Construction of basement car park, store extension and residential units above
Week 22-45 Construction of affordable housing units
Week 6-46 internal fit out of store (subject to sainsbury's approval of work permitted within this period
week 33-56 Fit out of London Road apartments
There is a lot of extra detail but for local residents perhaps the most important info is:
Mon-Fri - 8.00 am - 6.00 pm
Sat - 8.00 am - 1.00 pm
Sun and Bk hols - no working
Vehicles will access site:
For first 23 weeks all construction vehicles will enter the site via Sainsbury's service road (from Pearcefield Avenue)passing rear of store and underneath existing sales area. Large items that cannot reach the site along this access route will need to be offloaded in the public car park.
From weeks 23-46 all construction vehicles will travel through the car park on route to the site operations area. From 47-56 weeks deliveries will still be via car park( which will have been completed by this stage and handed over). However the only vehicles requiring access at this stage will be small vans carrying small building/fit out materials |
Pat Trembath
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Wednesday, 07 July, 2004 - 03:42 pm: | |
I'm very good at adding PS's!
The info from Planning says Sainsbury's operate a "Good Neighbour" plan -
All contaminated materials discovered shall be handled processed and disposed of in an approved manner...
All plant and euipment will be checked to ensure that it is in good working order and conforms to manufacturer's standards. All equipment will be properly silenced to meet statutory emission standards.
Noisy plant and equipment shall be sited as far away as practicable from sensitive buildings
Wherever practicable all plant and equipment shall be powered by mains electricity in preference to ....diesel generators
Vehicles and mechanical plant shall be fitted with effective exhaust silencers, maintained in good and efficient working order and operated to minimise noise emissions
Machines in intermittent use shall be shut down..
Noise emitting equipment that is required to run continuously will be housed in suitable enclosures
Compressors will be "sound reduced" models fitted....with sealed acoustic covers that must be kept closed when....in use
Equipment which breaks concrete, brickwork or masonry by bending or by bursting during the demolition stage will be used in prefeence to percussive tools as far as is practicable
Pneumatic percusssive tools will be fitted with mufflers or silencers....recommended by manufacturers
Plant shall be maintained in good workmanlike condition so that extraneous noise from mechanical vibration, creaking and squeaking is kept to a minimum
Care will be taken when loading and unloading vehicles, dismnatling scaffoldingor moving materials to reduce impact noise
There is also an underatking to take measures to minimise dust and to minimise dirt on the highway |
Rob
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Wednesday, 07 July, 2004 - 04:21 pm: | |
Thanks Pat. Any idea when week 1 will be?? |
Brian
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Wednesday, 07 July, 2004 - 04:47 pm: | |
I agree many thanks Pat , but as Rob says , when is week 1.
Let us hope not too long |
Pat Trembath
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Wednesday, 07 July, 2004 - 05:26 pm: | |
Understand late July |
Brian
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 08 July, 2004 - 06:44 am: | |
Dear Pat
Many thanks. |
Pat Trembath
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 08 July, 2004 - 04:38 pm: | |
Sue Wright, Lewisham Planning Officer with responsibility of overseeing the Sainsbury's application, tells me she is quite amenable to anyone who needs any further clarification on the coming refurbishment contacting her directly on 8314 9384.
You cant get a better offer... |
Rob
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 08 July, 2004 - 04:55 pm: | |
Thanks Pat. I've spoken to Sue a couple of times and always found her very helpful.
To avoid everyone on this site calling her, do you have the up to date info from her that you could post on the site? The main sticking point appears to be when the official start date is. Some clarification from Sue would be most welcome. |
Pat Tremabth
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 08 July, 2004 - 05:56 pm: | |
The up-to-date info given by me yesterday on SE23.com comes from Sainsbury's own "CONSTRUCTION METHOD STATEMENT" on file at Lewisham since 21 April.
Perhaps if you, on behalf of everyone in FH, would like to phone Sue for the latest "official" start date we will be even more up to date? |
Rob
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Friday, 09 July, 2004 - 11:32 am: | |
I've spoken to Sue Wright this morning, and here's the most up to date information available. I'll call her again in a couple of weeks for an update.
"The development is still progressing and there is absolutely no reason to believe that the extension isn't going to go ahead as planned. All samples of materials have been seen. The planning for application relating to dust polution has also been approved. Discussions are still ongoing relating to the land agreement and affordable housing. However, this doesn't affect the start date of the project, which should hopefully be late July or possibly August."
Sue - I know you read this site. Thanks for your support and willingness to keep everyone updated. |
Hilltop General
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Friday, 09 July, 2004 - 12:17 pm: | |
Perhaps we might not always have the highest opinion of the council but I'll add my thanks to that above. It contrasts sharply with Sainsbury's approach and unwillingness to engage with its customers and neighbours. |
henry
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Saturday, 10 July, 2004 - 08:54 am: | |
I agree with Hilltop General. Sainsburys ought to take note that they have competition in the form of internet deliveries from Waitrose, Tesco, etc, and perhaps they ought to keep us sweet and make some conciliatory moves towards us, the local community and their clientele. For small shopping we already go to Tesco Metro on London Road. It is not impossible to do a full weekly shop there. We already go to Waitrose in Beckenham at least once a month as we find the Forest Hill Sainsburys such a dire experience, and if we have to get in the car and travel why bother with Savacentre or Dulwich. Listen and learn , Sainsburys!!! |
Charlie
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Wednesday, 14 July, 2004 - 12:30 pm: | |
It is my understanding that the main freehold interest of the majority share of the site is actually owned by the council. Sainsbury's are largely a freeholder there. The cost of development is being funded by Sainsbury who will in turn take on a long leashold on the site.
This Being the case, I think your direction of critisism is a little unfair. It would be unprofessional of Sainsbury's and their developer to comment on planning and legal issues and other local authority requirements until all matters had been resolved.
Sainsbury's have been ready to push on with the development for sometime and the postponment is largely due to the planners and legals involved which have held up proceedings.
My feeling is that if you have a problem with Sainsbury's then just don't shop there. I'm sure most will not follow your example however. In the light of the Local Authority's involvement in contributing to the almost constant postponement do you propose to stop paying your Council Tax? |
Hilltop General
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Wednesday, 14 July, 2004 - 04:11 pm: | |
I don't think that is actually the case though. And what stops them saying "we are just waiting for planning and will be starting as soon as we get it", if it were? The reaosn everyone is frustrated is because of the total lack of information. |
Rob
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 15 July, 2004 - 04:18 pm: | |
Hi - earlier this month I contacted the CSR team at Sainsbury's. I received this message today from Customer Services. Perhaps one of our Councillors could enlighten us.
Thank you for your recent e-mail. I am sorry to hear that you have not been kept updated with recent developments at our Forest Hill store.
I have spoken with our Property Department and they have confirmed that they are planning an extension for the store. Work should commence in May 2005 after the appropriate procedures have been followed. Residents will be notified nearer the date. I apologise that you have not been kept updated but it is not our intention to keep local residents in the dark.
I hope this answers your query. thank you once again for contacting us.
Kind regards,
Jennifer Frost
Sainsbury's Customer Services |
Hilltop General
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 15 July, 2004 - 04:55 pm: | |
May 2005! 2005?. Great. Long may our scruffy high street continue.
Any idea who is responsible for this hiatus? It really isn't acceptable to just leave half the street derelict and decaying for years while you dither and sort your act out. The store itself is in an absolutely dreadful state and is clearly being run down. What a joy it will be shopping there for another year...how I love that East Berlin 1970-1985 vibe...
Tesco's for me it is then, as far as possible... |
virgin
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 15 July, 2004 - 05:05 pm: | |
May 2005, what happened to late July, Sainsbury are really proving what a deadloss they are at delivering both quality produce and a place people want to shop. Seams a change in management just means further delays no wonder market share is dropping. Is Sainsbury the next Safeway. Bring on Waitrose |
etoile
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 15 July, 2004 - 09:51 pm: | |
The shop is looking very tired and forlorn and I'm amazed that the group wants to still have premises so badly representing the brand. I have shopped at this branch for nearly 20years and it looks exactly the same now as it did when I moved to Forest Hill. Sad thing is, I remember being really impressed with it back then!
Waitrose in Forest Hill??? Yes please! |
Mrs Very Angry
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 15 July, 2004 - 10:35 pm: | |
The more I read about this, the more furious and frustrated I become. WHO IS RESPONSIBLE for this fiasco? If it is Sainsbury's, I propose a mass boycott. This whole inexplicable and disgraceful mess completely blites Forest Hill. How on earth does Lewisham Council justify allowing our High Street to fall apart year after year, after year? Just how bad does it have to get before the council sort out this catastrophe? Stop fobbing us off Lewisham/Sainsbury's - shame on the lot of you - I bet you all live in Chelsea - you certainly wouldn't allow this to continue on your own doorsteps.... |
benny
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 15 July, 2004 - 11:42 pm: | |
how about staging a protest then one Saturday. should attract the press. Anyone up for this? |
Rob
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Friday, 16 July, 2004 - 10:01 am: | |
We want the development to happen, not raise enough alarm bells that they decide against going ahead with the extension.
From all of my enquiries, I feel confident that Sainsbury's will go ahead. However, it's the lack of communication from the store that is the most frustrating element. Both the Council and Sainsbury's know it's a blight on the London Road landscape. That's why they've spent 3 years on the planning application and public consultation.
I suggest that we hang tight and wait for a response from our Councillor. |
Etoile
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Friday, 16 July, 2004 - 10:39 am: | |
Its a difficult one - I would be up for a protest but I understand what Rob is saying. Maybe a full on protest/boycott would be a bit strong - is there not a half way mark to demonstrate to the council how concerned the residents are? That way we could be proactive to the situation instead of just having to be reactive to the lack of anything happening? |
Cllr David Whiting
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Friday, 16 July, 2004 - 10:48 am: | |
Rob's posting is helpful in setting out some of the key issues to be taken into account in handling ths Sainsburys situation.
However, I have reason to believe that the statement from Sainsburys Customer Relations Dept is inaccurate. This matter is being pursued by Lewisham officers.
I will post again as soon as I have more information.
David Whiting |
Rob
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Friday, 16 July, 2004 - 11:28 am: | |
Thanks David. Your updates are extremely helpful and most appreciated. |
Les
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Friday, 16 July, 2004 - 05:29 pm: | |
Just adding my voice to those frustrated residents that have seen their home town blighted by Sainsburys buying half the high street and letting it rot.
I understand the delays in the planning process, but more dithering after consent seems unforgivable.
Les. |
cathy
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Friday, 16 July, 2004 - 11:17 pm: | |
If it does turn out to be 2005 then I will expect an apology for the suggestion I spread idle gossip on this board. I was told by a reliable source some time ago that works would not commence until next year. |
CR
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Saturday, 17 July, 2004 - 12:08 am: | |
Bizarre isn't it.. shops are closing, the Sainsbury delays are keeping areas of the London Road derelict. And there's still a big question mark over the East London line.
Yet I keep reading about how up-and-coming FH is! Seems there are various parties out there obstructing any real progress with unecessary bureaucracy. |
The Other Brian
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Sunday, 18 July, 2004 - 11:09 am: | |
I've heard asbestos has been discovered in the derelict buildings and this has affected the plans for demolition. |
Charlie
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Monday, 19 July, 2004 - 10:09 am: | |
Asbestos will not halt the development. It can and will be safely removed by HSE accredited specialists during demolition.
Just to pick up on a couple of points. I really don't think it is the intention of either Sainsbury's or the Local Authority to leave London Road in a dilapidated condition. As the new development is likely to stand there for the forseable future things must be done correctly. I know it's frustrating but with schemes of this nature it really does take long lead in times.
Unfortunatly unecessary bureaucracy in the planning system generally does not assist in these matters. Whilst consent has been agreed there are a number of conditions attached which must be dealt with prior to any work commencing on-site. These matters are being dealt with and you should expect to see work starting forthwith. |
John
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Monday, 19 July, 2004 - 11:12 am: | |
Thanks Charlie. I'm assuming you're working on the project. Any ideas of a start date? |
Ian
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Wednesday, 21 July, 2004 - 02:18 pm: | |
Dear Cllr Whiting
Have you got any news on whether the Sainsbury's customer services were correct? |
Charlie
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 22 July, 2004 - 09:03 am: | |
Reply to John.
I would say within the next two to three weeks. |
Jason Edwards
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Friday, 23 July, 2004 - 01:37 pm: | |
I would like to offer my sincere apologies for any confusion that has been caused by a recent letter from my colleague Jennifer Frost, regarding the commencement of work to improve our Forest Hill store. A schedule was incorrectly interpreted, which caused the original completion date for the scheme to be given out, instead of the date we hope to commence work.
Please let me also reassure all residents and other interested parties that Sainsbury's is fully committed to the redevelopment of its store and the regeneration of Forest Hill.
Construction work on this scheme cannot begin until a number of complex legal and landownership issues have been resolved. As Sainsbury's does not own the freehold of the store, we have to secure a development agreement with our landlord for the work. We are working hard to resolve all these issues as quickly as possible to enable us to start work on the scheme.
Although we cannot confirm a start date at the moment, I can assure you that the project will commence this year. As soon as it is practical, we will publish a timetable for the project, including the confirmed start and completion dates. We will forward this to you for inclusion on this website.
I would like to thank you for your continued patience during this time and once again apologise for the error in our previous correspondence. If you have any queries in the meantime, please contact Gary Pleasants at Good Relations on 020 7861 3128.
Jason Edwards
Team Manager
Sainsbury's Customer Services Department |
Councillor Susan Wise
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Friday, 23 July, 2004 - 05:05 pm: | |
Dear Jason
On behalf of the 3 Forest Hill ward councillors, I would like to thank you for this correction and update on the situation with your store. We look forward to the project timetable being published on this website. |
HilsR
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Friday, 23 July, 2004 - 07:29 pm: | |
Jason - Your message is very welcome. I look forward to your next installment. |
Les
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Saturday, 24 July, 2004 - 07:57 am: | |
Jason - thanks for your note - as you can see there has been a fair amount of mis-information flying about on this board.
I think its fair to say, though, that Sainsbury's has not earned itself any favours from the local community with its communications on this project. The frustration is evident from some of the posts here. In a town centre that is far from thriving this development is seen as crucial to keeping the area alive.
I'm wondering if a 'current status' board in the store would have kept the unnecessary gossip under control.
Cheers,
Les. |
Cllr David Whiting
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Saturday, 24 July, 2004 - 08:41 am: | |
Nonetheless, the bottom line is that Sainsburys have proved willing to back Forest Hill. The process of land asssembly, and associated agreements appears to have been enormously complex, but Sainsburys have stuck with it
It is for Sainsburys to deal with their own public relations, not the local authority or councillors, but remember that they have been in complex negociations with third parties and this can sometimes make it difficult to issues meaningful public statements for all sorts of reasons.
d |
Les
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Monday, 26 July, 2004 - 11:38 am: | |
David,
Point taken. It's difficult to judge without knowing exactly what the issues have been.
None the less, this development has been on the cards since I moved to FH in 1997. It's difficult to justify that sort of timescale, whatever the technicalities. The Channel Tunnel was built in less time!
Les.
Les. |
Muddy Waters
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| | Posted on Thursday, 12 August, 2004 - 02:14 pm: | |
Shall we bring this to the top of the FORUM topics again - I think it is getting lost - tis 3 weeks since it was last referred to..... Is there any further news? |
Muddy Waters
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| | Posted on Thursday, 12 August, 2004 - 02:58 pm: | |
Amazing!! A desert then everyone looks at their watches at once....!!!! |
B
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| | Posted on Thursday, 12 August, 2004 - 05:28 pm: | |
Yes all those who said it would have started by now. No sign yet. |
Jon
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| | Posted on Thursday, 12 August, 2004 - 05:56 pm: | |
Cllrs - Any update please? |
Al
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| | Posted on Friday, 13 August, 2004 - 11:10 am: | |
Has anyone spoken to Gary at Good Relations? Probably worth a call. |
Bosco
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| | Posted on Friday, 13 August, 2004 - 11:32 am: | |
Good idea Al - let us know how you get on! |
Charlie
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| | Posted on Monday, 16 August, 2004 - 06:01 pm: | |
Start date mid september - confirmed |
CB
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Monday, 16 August, 2004 - 09:04 pm: | |
Charlie - start date mid Sept confirmed, as in "set in concrete 100%" confirmed, or as in "until we change our minds again next week and delay for another year or more" confirmed?? Sorry to be so cynical, but the date has been changed so many times. |
Pete
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| | Posted on Tuesday, 17 August, 2004 - 09:18 am: | |
Cllrs - can you confirm the mid Sept start date, please? Great news if true. |
B
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| | Posted on Tuesday, 17 August, 2004 - 03:42 pm: | |
Yes I will believe it when I see it |
Charlie
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| | Posted on Tuesday, 17 August, 2004 - 04:30 pm: | |
As I said, start date will be mid september.
All of the legal issues have now been formalised. As I have already mentioned in previous posts the legals have been a protracted problem for both Sainsbury's and the LBC. I know it is frustrating from a residents point of view (and that it has been a major issue holding up development) but when entering into a 999yr lease of this nature things are just not that straightforward. This isn't an excuse, it is just the way things are I'm afraid.
|
Jon
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| | Posted on Tuesday, 17 August, 2004 - 05:02 pm: | |
Thanks Charlie. That's most appreciated. What's your role relating to the development? |
Pete
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| | Posted on Wednesday, 25 August, 2004 - 10:37 am: | |
Charlie - are you sure it's confirmed for mid-Sept. Still no official news... |
Brian
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| | Posted on Thursday, 26 August, 2004 - 08:24 am: | |
It would be great if work proceeds mid Sept. I will await news from the Store |
B
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| | Posted on Friday, 27 August, 2004 - 07:30 am: | |
I have been advised that the staff are completely unaware of a start in Sept.!!!!!!
As the store would need to be closed for a number of weeks this would seem very surprising |
Jon
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| | Posted on Friday, 27 August, 2004 - 09:38 am: | |
A mid-Sept start date seems highly unlikely now. However, the store won't have to close straight away. I understand it will be closed towards the middle or end of the 52-week project. |
Zoe
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| | Posted on Friday, 27 August, 2004 - 11:00 am: | |
Could Jason Edwrds,Team Manager of Sainsbury's Customer Service Dept. provide a progress report please? |
Cathy
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| | Posted on Saturday, 28 August, 2004 - 10:16 am: | |
I await the outcome with interest... |
DB
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| | Posted on Tuesday, 31 August, 2004 - 11:27 am: | |
What I'd like to know is this:
have the legal issues been holding up the development for the last few years then? |
CR
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| | Posted on Tuesday, 31 August, 2004 - 11:34 am: | |
I love the way our local political representatives conveniently side-step the crucial issue here - that they allowed Sainsburys to buy up half the street in the first place.
No wonder people feel disillusioned with politics when they see how it operates at a local level. |
Steve Grindlay
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| | Posted on Wednesday, 01 September, 2004 - 04:50 pm: | |
There is an undated notice in one of the derelict shops next to Sainsbury's explaining that the delays have been caused by complex negotiations with the freeholder. However, it did say quite firmly that work would begin before the end of the year. I mentioned this to a member of staff who said employees had been told by a manager this morning that work would begin in October.
|
CB
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| | Posted on Thursday, 02 September, 2004 - 09:40 pm: | |
Charlie - start date mid September still "confirmed" then or what? |
Zoe
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| | Posted on Friday, 03 September, 2004 - 10:01 am: | |
I think we have to assume that the start date for redevelopment of our local store remains decidedly "iffy". Even if the "complex negotiations with third parties" are soon resolved, Sainsburys Plc is now vulnerable to a takeover bid. Would hard-nosed new owners rate our town as a prime site? I doubt it. |
nwr
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| | Posted on Tuesday, 07 September, 2004 - 05:27 pm: | |
There is a sign on one of the empty shops along from the store stating apologies for he inconvenience etc. etc. and aiming to start before the new year.. |
Rob
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| | Posted on Tuesday, 07 September, 2004 - 05:36 pm: | |
Just phoned Gary at Good Relations. They should be ready to make a start date announcement by the end of this month. |
CR
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| | Posted on Monday, 13 September, 2004 - 01:42 pm: | |
Hmmm. |
Cathy
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| | Posted on Tuesday, 14 September, 2004 - 02:12 pm: | |
I'm just wondering how likely it is that Sainsburys will start building work in the Winter - that's if this drags on for much longer. |
Pete
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| | Posted on Tuesday, 21 September, 2004 - 11:13 am: | |
I spoke to the Sainsbury's manager yesterday. He said that there was a review board meeting that day, so would have more news by the end of the week. The project has encountered quite a few problems but still seems to be all going ahead. The last he'd heard, demolition would start in mid Oct, but that will be confirmed at Monday's meeting. Does anyone know what the outcome was? |
Brian
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| | Posted on Wednesday, 22 September, 2004 - 08:20 am: | |
It would be nice if they stuck a BIG notice in the window giving the FACTS , not possible or probable outcomes. |
Jon
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Monday, 27 September, 2004 - 10:54 am: | |
Any news on this? Someone close to the project must know the outcome of last week's meeting... |
AC Plonk
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| | Posted on Monday, 27 September, 2004 - 08:01 pm: | |
.... but they are not telling us! What's the big secret? |
virgin
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| | Posted on Friday, 01 October, 2004 - 02:26 pm: | |
We are now in October,
and guess what
still no news |
PVP
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| | Posted on Monday, 04 October, 2004 - 03:54 pm: | |
A little dicky bird told me that the main reason for the delay was due to the car park. Unlike in most instances, Sainsbury's do not own this car park, the council does. That is why customers have to pay to use it whereas normally there is no charge.
The council are being unreasonable in some way, I think it was to do with ££ (as ever).
Now wouldn't it be ironic if the delay in sprucing up one of FH's biggest eyesores was down to our beloved council. |
Jon
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| | Posted on Tuesday, 12 October, 2004 - 10:53 am: | |
Any more news on this? It's mid October and still no news from Good Relations or the Council. |
Minty
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Wednesday, 13 October, 2004 - 11:20 pm: | |
And have none of you noticed that the store has now been broken into twice in the past week?
Last week the lock on the front gate was broken and the glass door smashed in with a stash of cigarettes taken. This time the vandals managed to kick through the frontage and block the front entrace with broken glass which resulted in customers being told to enter at the back.
I have a feeling that the staff are dealing with the situation as best they can but when are they going to be backed up by the council and Sainsbury's? These events will either spur the management to hurry up the bureaucracy or make them run a mile.
Even though the situation is going from bad to worse, any progress towards regeneration will discourage further vandalism. |
B
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 14 October, 2004 - 07:56 am: | |
I agree this is an unmittigated disaster.
Perhaps they need armed guards of dogs overnight.
When oh when are we going to get an actual date for start.
Even if 1st June 2025 at least we would know.
I think Vandals is being a bit tough on the ancient tribe. Criminals is what they are. |
Bigbravebear
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| | Posted on Thursday, 14 October, 2004 - 11:34 am: | |
It has now been confirmed that the official date for start on this project will be 1 June 2025.
There. |
B
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 14 October, 2004 - 03:29 pm: | |
Are you jesting or this kosher.
As Mr Meldrew would say I do not believe it. |
BT
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| | Posted on Friday, 15 October, 2004 - 09:16 am: | |
I can't see that any redevelopment is going to stop the local yobs smashing their way in if they really want to! |
A fellow PR
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| | Posted on Friday, 15 October, 2004 - 12:02 pm: | |
Has anyone phoned Gary Pleasants recently? We should have an update from him, even if it's not a favourable one. They're supposed to be a communications agency. That's what they're paid to do. At present they're not only damaging Sainsbury's name but also Good Relations.
Gary - if you're reading this, please sort it out. |
Hils
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| | Posted on Wednesday, 20 October, 2004 - 08:12 pm: | |
As Sainsburys have a new Chief Executive may he would like to the visit the Forest Hill store and see a store that needs rebuilding urgently in order to bring back some of its customers. Maybe we should invite him and see if this can speed this process up! |
B
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 21 October, 2004 - 07:59 am: | |
BT
With a new store probally better security. They have probably figured not worth spending a fortune on security at this stage.
I again take issue with the word YOBS it is CRIMINALS. |
PVP
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| | Posted on Thursday, 21 October, 2004 - 10:20 am: | |
If only we had an alternative.... |
Styx
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 21 October, 2004 - 10:50 am: | |
I agree with B. People who break into shops or houses to steal are burglars or criminals. Yobs (backslang for "boys") implies nothing more than rather rowdy young men. |
Alex
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| | Posted on Saturday, 23 October, 2004 - 12:50 pm: | |
Yobs promote anti-social behaviour, which, IMHO drives crime. |
Wayne
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| | Posted on Saturday, 23 October, 2004 - 05:10 pm: | |
Spoke with shop-assistant today, it starts in January.... of course we've heard this cr\*p before... |
J
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Saturday, 23 October, 2004 - 09:28 pm: | |
If you adhere to the broken windows/zero tolerance school of thought, it is clear that the supermarket is promoting criminal activity through gross neglect of property. |
Cathy
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| | Posted on Sunday, 24 October, 2004 - 12:21 pm: | |
As the person who started this thread, none of this is a surprise to me. All I can say is, communication between different departments in Sainsburys must be quite poor.
I'm not going to comment further until the start date is official. Oh I forgot, it's been 'official' before and then nothing happened. |
CB
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Sunday, 24 October, 2004 - 06:34 pm: | |
Quite agree Cathy. Looks like you were right all along about the start date. Infact, I wouldn't be surprised if we are still having this discussion this time next year. Have people noticed incidently, that empty shops are on the increase in Forest Hill? This whole disaster is turning our town centre into a wasteland.
Interesting that we have heard nothing for ages from the council, Sainsbury's or anyone else in the know. I feel that the excuse that "these things take time" has gone well past acceptable. When is someone offically involved with this "project" going to be honest, and tell us what is really going on? It is Forest Hill residents that have to live with this mess on a daily basis. I think we are owed some honesty. |
Its not ALL Sainsburys fault
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Sunday, 24 October, 2004 - 07:35 pm: | |
CB.
So the amount of empty shops in Forest Hill is all down to Sainsbury's delay in starting this new project eh? - as if their expansion is going to bring back those who have departed from London Road and Dartmouth Road such as the cinema, Woolworths, Radio Rentals, Woolwich bank, Midland bank, Tesco, the fishmongers, the school shop, the records and music shop, two shoe shops, the bakery, the book shop, the printers, Horton Griffiths travel agents, Futon Plus and so on?
Perhaps our shopping area is going to have to become even worse (!!) before someone strong in local government gets the hint that this place is in desperate need of a serious chunk of that big ol' pot of central goverment's money that always seems to go to our poor old neighbours (NOT!)- Lewisham, Deptford, Penge, Brixton, etc.
IMHO even though our Sainsbury store is a big player in Forest Hill, the project's delays are only a small part of the town's shopping area problem; and maybe this 'regeneration' plan thing might be the catalyst needed to attract a level of funding which could turn things around and bring some good private businesses here. |
Cathy
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| | Posted on Monday, 25 October, 2004 - 08:36 pm: | |
I think the Lewisham Council should be doing more to encourage local businesses to start up in Forest Hill. They say they are - but I've not seen much evidence of it so far.
There are issues that could be addressed - parking facilities, unrealistically high shop rents etc. Our local councillor has said elsewhere that he believes there are too many businesses in Forest Hill already. What are we to make of this? I think the present state of decay in London and Dartmouth Roads is already having a detrimental effect on the area, although I'm very pleased to see the new gastro pub doing well, however as I understand it they have the backing of a larger restaurant chain and can afford the local rates.
I'm not just blaming Sainsburys, I'm blaming the council too. It's been a shambles so far and it's time they restored our faith in the process of local planning and regeneration. |
CB
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Monday, 25 October, 2004 - 10:16 pm: | |
I am not saying the Sainsbury's delay is the only reason for the amount of empty shops, but I do feel it has a large part to play. These things have a knock on effect and if I was looking to open a new business, I wouldn't put it in a street where half the buildings have been empty and derelict for several years. I think Forest Hill has many great things to offer and would love to see the town centre thriving, but I feel strongly that until this project goes ahead, other businesses will continue to suffer |
R
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| | Posted on Tuesday, 26 October, 2004 - 01:00 pm: | |
I do hope people will protest about any Council plans to abandon the Forest Hill Steering Group, as I understand is the case, and will also try and make this a more interesting and relevant forum. Apparently the articles of the Steering Group make insist on Councillor leadership/representation but with the Councils approval these can be changed. We could also set up a similar forum independently but this will require considerable dedicated input. It would be preferable if the Council enabled the Group to continue . It has never been needed more. |
Cllr David Whiting
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| | Posted on Tuesday, 26 October, 2004 - 01:22 pm: | |
There is no 'Council' plan to abandon the FH Steering Group - there could not be, as it has not been a recognised Council body since 2002. It is a purely informal operation, run and supported by local councillors. The issue for us is not whether or not we have methods of consulting people on key issues, but whether the Steering Group in its present form is the best approach.
Clearly, as R says, there is a need to clarify its role, and hopefully ensure that what we do engages rather more people. The evidence from the Council's consultation which went towards designing our current approach is that regular committee style meetings are not necessarily the best approach. However, there are several issues in Forest Hill which may well engage people in large numbers provided the Forum for their discussion is right.
We will be putting together a paper for the next meeting which will outline the approach to area consultation which has applied in Lewisham, and suggesting some options for the future in respect of anything we do specifically in Forest Hill ward.
It should also be remembered that much of the catchment area of Forest Hill falls into Perry Hill ward, and Councillors for that ward will also have views about how they wish to deal with issues affecting their electors.
d |
Rob
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| | Posted on Sunday, 31 October, 2004 - 04:23 pm: | |
I noticed that Gary Pleasants' note that promised Sainsbury's were committed to the redevelopment and that work will start before December has been removed. I assume that this information no longer applies. No updates and no progress.
Cllr Whiting - what is going on??? |
Cllr David Whiting
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Sunday, 31 October, 2004 - 10:00 pm: | |
I think you will find that Jason Edwards' note which outlined the position in July is still on this discussion thread.
I believe that it is still true that Sainsburys is in complex discussion with their landlords, but hope to start work this year. There was nothing in the Company's statement of 19th October to suggest otherwise, and they still have a team in place working on this project.
I am not sure that it is helpful for me to say more than that at this stage. The ball is in Sainsburys' court, though obviously the Council is in touch with the company at various levels.
d |
Rob
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| | Posted on Monday, 01 November, 2004 - 10:05 am: | |
Thanks David. As ever, your quick and honest replies are most appreciated.
The note I was referring to was on the Sainsbury's building. Sorry, didn't make myself very clear. It just seemed odd that the statement had been removed.
R |
RS
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| | Posted on Tuesday, 02 November, 2004 - 01:00 pm: | |
Forest Hill Steering Group - are these meetings open to the public? If so, when and where is the next one? |
Cllr David Whiting
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Tuesday, 02 November, 2004 - 01:25 pm: | |
FH Steering group meetings are open to the public and the next meeting is on 16th December at 7:00pm at Forest Hill Library.
d |
BT
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| | Posted on Thursday, 04 November, 2004 - 08:24 am: | |
I see that the row of empty shops next to Sainsburys is being fenced off, presumably there is some work starting there shortly. |
erms
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| | Posted on Thursday, 04 November, 2004 - 02:05 pm: | |
or is it just cos they are about to fall down through neglect? |
RS
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Tuesday, 09 November, 2004 - 09:14 am: | |
I did ask when I saw the hoardings going up - this information from a cashier in Sainsburys - Yes the work is starting, but it will take 58 weeks - so that's not finished until next Christmas!!! Can this be right? |
Hilltop General
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| | Posted on Tuesday, 09 November, 2004 - 10:27 am: | |
Yes, takes a while to build things, esp when you have a lot of demolition to do first. |
Rob
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| | Posted on Tuesday, 09 November, 2004 - 03:39 pm: | |
Can we have a strand of positive news here please?
While I've been very vocal about the lack of external communication on this project, it appears that the project is finally going ahead. I believe that the extension will be complete before next Christmas, with the main store closing for a short period in August.
Great news for SE23. What a pity that it wasn't communicated by those who have worked so hard to finally make it happen. |
Jon
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| | Posted on Saturday, 20 November, 2004 - 09:32 pm: | |
Does any one know whether they've actually started work on the extension, or is the blue border a 'cover up' for more delays... |
i
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| | Posted on Tuesday, 23 November, 2004 - 10:22 pm: | |
realisticly rob they havent tried hard enough, as there has been years of no progress before this supermarket purchased forest hill and there has been stagnent progress after they had made the purchase.
we pay taxes so the area we live in is kept clean and tidy, free from crime and a freedom of choice.
these are simple needs that have not been offerd to us |
Jon
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| | Posted on Monday, 06 December, 2004 - 12:05 pm: | |
Has anyone noticed work starting yet? The big blue boards have been up for nearly a month but I haven't seen any builders. |
TJHooker
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| | Posted on Wednesday, 05 January, 2005 - 12:59 pm: | |
Ok, nearly 2 months after Rob's request for a strand of positive news, is there any forthcoming?
Please?! |
who_me?
Joined N/A
| | Posted on Thursday, 06 January, 2005 - 10:53 am: | |
Amazing, how much information is owed to so many by so few....
WTF is going on with this?? |
