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Honor Oak Park - Your Ideal Parade of...

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Honoracorn
Joined 14-03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 16 May, 2007 - 04:37 pm:   

If you could imagine your ideal parade of shops what kind of businesses would there be? What do you think the area is crying out for? A decent wine shop, maybe a good Thai restaurant? Maybe some entrepreneurial types might view this thread and get some inspiration.

Personally I wonder why there is such a need so many travel agents specialising in Cyprus. Surely in this day and age, all high st travel agents are struggling for business, yet in HOP there are two that serve the same specific destination. Weird.
Ghis
Joined 02-01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 16 May, 2007 - 05:21 pm:   

In an ideal world, I would love a traditional butcher, a traditional baker (French patisserie?), a fishmonger, a grocer and a cheese/dairy shop.
Tttttttttttttt
Joined 28-03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 16 May, 2007 - 06:35 pm:   

Just a really nice deli (please) would cover most of Ghis's wishlist - and I'm sure it would be a huge hit with the rush-hour /station crowd .......
Domc
Joined 17-03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 16 May, 2007 - 07:20 pm:   

is already a deli. Very nice stuff sold too.
Liz
Joined 26-04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 16 May, 2007 - 07:44 pm:   

I'll second that. And there's an excellent butcher's not a million miles away on Woodvale.
Robwinton
Joined 07-06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 16 May, 2007 - 07:59 pm:   

and Mr Lawrence just down the road in Crofton Park is a reasonably decent wine shop - a bit far for Forest Hillers but pretty close if you are around HOP

like the idea though.

I agree with most of the other comments, but how about a proper local book store (unfortunately they rarely make money) and a craft shop that focused on the local artists?
Jbird
Joined 13-02-2006
Posted on Thursday, 17 May, 2007 - 09:11 am:   

I don't want to hijack this thread, but what I'd really like for the Honor Oak parade is a new method of collecting rubbish. It's such a shame to see a rank of wheelie bins outside every shop - I think it really lets the area down. What's more, the bins outside the chippy and the pizza place can smell awful, especially on a long hot summer's day.
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Thursday, 17 May, 2007 - 09:25 am:   

Is there an alley behind the shops where they could store the bins?
Ana
Joined 30-01-2007
Posted on Thursday, 17 May, 2007 - 09:37 am:   

HOBO the traders association is currently pushing for a solution, not an easy thing as there is a variety of issues. At Equal we have three large industrial bins that are stored in the yard. I think we are the only trader to use this facility. The residents (tenants) do not always have access to the rear but all the traders do. I use a private company who are more willing to make the effort of loading from the alleyway, from experience Lewisham bin men cannot be bothered to make the effort, hence I have switched. I find it incredibly frustrating that given I have no bins outside quite often i can find upto six bins parked on my frontage and to make your way down the street is like running a steeplechase. Daily bag collection has its own problems and vermin will be attracted to this especially since bags will sit 24hrs before collection. HOP is also a bit of a wind channnel. My preference would be if they have three bin stations strategically placed along the parade so that residents and commercial users can use it, but this won't be Lewisham's preference as they will have to work out a way of still charging commercial companies who are required by law to have a trade waste agreement. And I do not suppose anyone of the traders will want a large 1100 bin lodged outside their premises. All ideas will be forwarded to julie Sutch who is our town centre manager.
Broadbeanster
Joined 12-02-2007
Posted on Thursday, 17 May, 2007 - 11:50 am:   

I agree with Ghis... would be really nice to have a bakery and a greengrocers... the deli stocks organic fruit/veg but it is pretty expensive so its only used in our house as a back up... would also be nice to have a diy type shop instead of having to trek over to b&q all the time.
Domc
Joined 17-03-2005
Posted on Thursday, 17 May, 2007 - 11:57 am:   

is a great little DIY shop at bottom of Forest Hill Road - nearly opposite doctors. Is small but seems to stock everything and can buy things individually not always needing to get large packets of things.
Ghis
Joined 02-01-2007
Posted on Thursday, 17 May, 2007 - 01:58 pm:   

I like the HOP deli too. I love the organic bread he sells.
I sometimes use a butcher in Ewhurst Road.

I just have this image of the traditional shop old parade.
The main problem I have is that I work long hours so when I walk to/back from the station most shops are closed and usually at the weekend I catch up on everything else that I could not do in the week which includes studying for some professional exams I am doing. it means it is easier to order groceries online and take part in an organic box of veg scheme.

I still have to use the framing shop / galery as I have severable photos to frame and have not got round to doing it. I am quite impressed about the fact that we have a florist, a galery, a deli, some quite trendy shops (furniture and jumping bean).

we currently have these two shops for sale in/near the parade:
http://www.findaproperty.com/displayprop.aspx?edid =00&salerent=0&pid=478711&agentid=11810

http://www.findaproperty.com/displayprop.aspx?edid =00&salerent=0&pid=816735&agentid=06498

McLarens could become a nice cafe for the local mums to meet up (nice coffe, organic cakes etc)
Visualeyes a shop like karavan in Forest Hill. I think that to survive a shop needs to find a quirky speciality. As traditional shops like butchers and bakers struggle face with most of us shopping in the big supermarkets.
Ghis
Joined 02-01-2007
Posted on Thursday, 17 May, 2007 - 02:01 pm:   

By the way Broadbeanster, there are hardware/pain shops in Brockley
Ana
Joined 30-01-2007
Posted on Thursday, 17 May, 2007 - 02:02 pm:   

Actually Visual Eyes is off the market - I was just testing the water to see what it would fetch. Will speak to agent to take it off.
Broadbeanster
Joined 12-02-2007
Posted on Thursday, 17 May, 2007 - 02:49 pm:   

Thanks for diy shop tips... I have cycled past the one at the bottom of Forest Hill Road but never remember its there until the next time I cycle past... will check out over the weekend as the neverending spiral of diy continues. Does it ever end?
Honoracorn
Joined 14-03-2007
Posted on Thursday, 17 May, 2007 - 05:40 pm:   

Did you have any interest in Visual Eyes Ana? I wonder if there is the daytime trade to support these shops. HOP is so quiet during the day and I wonder if its because the shops that are there are not what people want, or that there is just no one around to use them. I can imagine a business doing well pre-work and in the few hours when commuters come home from the station but between 10am and 4pm? I'd love to see a decent cafe, maybe a bit more like Moonbow Jakes and Jam Circus in Crofton Park. McClarens is too cramped and not particular well sited.
Tersie
Joined 04-02-2007
Posted on Friday, 18 May, 2007 - 07:56 am:   

The old fire place shop on HOP is also empty so it will be interesting to see what will go in there. I used the cyprus travel agent recently, although the signage indicates it solely specialises in Cyprus they do everything, I booked a very good late deal to Portugal. I would like to see a decent bakers / cafe, thai cafe or a licenced cafe like Moonbow Jakes too. Good to see Tapastry is now open on a Saturday for brunch now though, it is a good spot.
Wayfarer
Joined 01-11-2006
Posted on Friday, 18 May, 2007 - 12:25 pm:   

We're about to move from Forest Hill to Honor Oak Park, and one of the determining factors was the parade of shops and its proximity to Crofton Park/Brockley (and their shops). We are/were particularly looking forward to checking out McClarens, Visualeyes and the tapas restaurant, and whilst the parade is far from complete the couple of boutique shops show that it is moving in the right direction (we hope).

Having not been to the deli, I can't comment, on what it does/doesn't sell but the ability to but fresh/localish produce (meat, fish, veggies) would be great.
Lola
Joined 24-11-2006
Posted on Friday, 18 May, 2007 - 03:15 pm:   

I would like a decent wine shop as I'm too lazy to go all the way to Mr Lawrence. I would also love a charity/second hand furniture shop, not only to shop in but to donate to. Ebay just doesn't do it for me...
Wayfarer
Joined 01-11-2006
Posted on Friday, 18 May, 2007 - 03:18 pm:   

Lola, according to other threads it looks as thought the charity shop in FH could be closing, maybe they would consider a move to HOP.
Lola
Joined 24-11-2006
Posted on Friday, 18 May, 2007 - 03:24 pm:   

Ana, who owns the parade of shops? Maybe we can get one of the big charities to open in HOP? Is there a spare shop needing a tenant? Is the fireplace man leaving us or is he simply redecorating?
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
Posted on Friday, 18 May, 2007 - 03:38 pm:   

He's probably off to the mothership - he fitted a fireplace in our house and my partner was subjected to some of his rather unique beliefs as to the human race being descended from aliens...
Tersie
Joined 04-02-2007
Posted on Friday, 18 May, 2007 - 04:07 pm:   

Hi Lola - I hear through the grapevine he has moved on - maybe he is fitting fireplaces on mars Bosco .... ;-) Yes a wine bar / shop would be great, am not enthralled with the selection at the 'offy' on HOP. From what I know Wilmotts have control of the freehold / rentals ect but the rents have ramped up a lot recently so am sure this would put off a charity. Would be nice to have a decent shop there though.
Ana
Joined 30-01-2007
Posted on Monday, 21 May, 2007 - 04:32 pm:   

The Willmotts contact who is the commercial contact is Peter Roberts p.roberts@willmotts.co.uk. You should put your ideas forward to him as he vets all potential lessees. Equal's rent went up by 70% last year and every new tenant gives Willmotts the opportunity to uplift the rent to bring the benchmark up for other existing tenants to have theirs unreasonably raised. For any potential lessees of the Coal Fire Shop or any other unit - please check with me at Equal - I have a full list of others' rents and terms on the parade so that Willmotts cannot use ignorance to their advantage. I think a boutique, a record shop, a chemist would be what I would like to see as a resident. Currently the rent that Willmotts is hoping to get for the coal shop is equivalent to my double unit at Equal which also additionally includes a cellar. Visual Eyes (same size) has a third of the rental figure that the Coal Shop is expected to fetch, so you can see how by upping new leases everytime, existing older tenants can expect to have their rents more then doubled on renewal.
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
Posted on Monday, 21 May, 2007 - 04:49 pm:   

I think I have said this many times before on here and apologies if I am teaching anyone to suck eggs but the vast majority of commercial leases have provisions concerning rent reviews. If the tenant and landlord disagree on what the rent should be and cannot compromise there is usually the ability to refer disputes to an independent surveyor whose assessment will be final. How long is your lease? If rent was raised last year, presumably there won't be another review until 2011 (5 year rent review is fairly standard, I think).

The bottom line is don't think you cannot negotiate on rental levels because you can. If, however, it is the case that the 70% rise is as a result of rents not rising for a while and the market moving rapidly up then that's just commercial reality and does not necessarily mean it's unfair! And I'd be very careful about bandying about the assertion that you know exactly what everyone else is paying - there could well be confidentiality clauses in some of those leases.
Ana
Joined 30-01-2007
Posted on Monday, 21 May, 2007 - 05:47 pm:   

Existing businesses trying to survive on the parade who have helped turn a derelict parade into a vibrant local spot will always think it unfair that the Loandlord cashes in on their hard work! As a group of traders (HOBO) we have agreed to share this information to assist in keeping rents down in all future negotiations, no question of confidentiality clauses. Of course there is recourse through the courts but actually for small businesses this is an expensive option , commercial surveyors are not cheap , it is the courts view that is final not the independant surveyor who you are required to commission yourself. Willmotts have full knowledge of the market since they manage all the properties, traders like myself are simply arming ourselves with this knowledge before negotiating blindly. I got my rent down by 2k as a result of the shared info, but most importantly for me I was able to negotiate a longer lease of 14 years, Willmotts told me that they only gave out 5 year leases, until they realised I knew that others on the parade had upto 20. I did buy 2 hours of a surveyor's time to check the leases and measurements, the next step would have been to go to court with proof of what the market dictates, but of course the expense was prohibitive. There are thirty or so shops on the parade with consdierably lower rents recently negotiated and any potential lessee could benefit from this.
Lillam
Joined 15-04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 23 May, 2007 - 01:44 pm:   

Ten years ago we did have a hardware store, a butchers and a bakery - pretty much on the site of where the new Italian resteraunt is now. It would be great to have all these back - but is it close to being viable?

The bakery only really sold white bread though, and perhpas in the right hands it could be made to work again - though there isnt much money in bread. Doubling up as a sandwich shop helps.

AS a vegitarian Im not too fussed about having a butchers back - but the old owners seemed to be doing a good job, so I guess it wasnt viable.

Talking to a HOP oldboy the other day he was reminiscing how there used to be many fruit and veg spots on the parade - I think this is what is missing most in the area - although shopkeepers I have spoken to say that veg is often a loss maker, but they get it to bring in shoppers.

The old owners of "Cut Price Mini Mart" used to do a good selection of fruit and veg (and vegi food), but the new owners have failed to keep it up. Shame.

It would be nice if the deli could get in more fruit and veg, though i know this means getting up early for little reward. I've been walking over the hill to the Turkish shop for fruit and veg of late in an attempt to cut out Sainsbury's... would be nice if there was one closer.
Lola
Joined 24-11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 29 May, 2007 - 01:36 pm:   

Willmotts has a 'for rent' sign in the window of the Coal Fire shop. It has a lovely shop front with pretty old windows. I really hope we get a fab new shop that takes advantage of the old frontage.
Ana
Joined 30-01-2007
Posted on Thursday, 14 June, 2007 - 11:44 pm:   

News on Bins: The commercial blue bins including the chippie's have all gone, the residents' bins to be taken away shortly.
Seeformiles
Joined 09-04-2005
Posted on Saturday, 16 June, 2007 - 06:12 pm:   

Don't forget that Provender sells lovely breads and other foods plus they seem to be open past 5.30 several nights a week. Give them a go - they're the closest to a deli we have and already do a good job.
Hilltopgeneral
Joined 24-03-2004
Posted on Saturday, 16 June, 2007 - 10:03 pm:   

I've always found Provender stuff slightly lacking in whatever GM / E-Number goodness is apparently necessary to make bread and cakes a success...
Seeformiles
Joined 09-04-2005
Posted on Monday, 18 June, 2007 - 01:34 pm:   

But their carrot cake is lovely, not too worthy either. I agree that a bit of unwholesomeness in cakes makes them taste nicer.


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