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Shipman Road Rubbish Tip

Author Message
Elizabeth25
Joined 04-03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 11 April, 2007 - 09:27 am:   

(This had a thread, but I cannot find it, so I am starting a new one)

This is the response I got from Hexogon, the managing agents for the Normanton Rd development, which includes the new Medthodist Chruch, concerning the rubbish tip that has been created along the back of the new church on Shipman Rd.

***

I write in response to your e-mail regarding Normanton Street which has been forwarded to me by our Customer Services Department.

Unfortunately we have no control over the Methodist Church site, however, as the same contractor is now working for us on the adjacent site I have forwarded your e-mail to them for attention.

I would suggest that you contact the Methodist Church if you have any further concerns with respect to this matter.

Regards

Sarah

Sarah Hallson
Development Officer
Hexagon Housing Association
tel 020 8768 7984
fax 020 8659 9094
mailto: shallson@hexagon.org.uk

Now, the new church (which is very neat and clean, within its gates) must have noticed the wild rubbish garden along its back wall because they have put up signs instructing people where the entrance is on Normanton Rd.

I seem to remember when I first inquired about this site (2/3 years ago!) The council claimed it was private property and not their problem and the (then?) Pure Lake Group who said "Ummm, that's the council's problem, not ours."

So, what is to be done. Organize a bake sale to help the church pay for the clean-up? Pester Hexogon (who are developing residential property on the site) to clean it up? Wait 25 years for Lewisham send a man with a broom?

Shipman Rd, doesn't deserve the rubbish tip.
Blushingsnail
Joined 21-12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 11 April, 2007 - 11:13 am:   

Or possibly find out who owns the land and ask them to keep it tidy?
Fhssecretary
Joined 12-10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 11 April, 2007 - 11:46 am:   

Could try and get Lewisham to serve an untidy site notice on the owner - which will be defined in the land title entry. If the ownership is unclear then I suggest someone tidies it up and claims it! It will become yours in due course. Is it wide enough to do anything with, at all?
Lette
Joined 12-02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 11 April, 2007 - 12:00 pm:   

I don't think the church owns the land but Lewisham Council. It may be included in the plans to develop the path between Trilby and Sunderland Road, which is why nothing much has been done as yet. I agree it is becoming a bit of a rubbish dump!

Does anyone also know what the blue bags are that left at the corner of Trilby/Shipman Road? I assume it is some sort of collection point for rubbish but it is very unsightly and there seems to be more bags every day!
Blushingsnail
Joined 21-12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 11 April, 2007 - 12:42 pm:   

Having paid the princely sum of £3 on the Land Registry website I got the following information:

The piece of land is known as ĎLand on the south side of Shipman Road, Londoní and was originally registered in 1926. It currently has two owners, one listed at an address in Reading and the other in Cheshire (I have the names and addresses but Iím not going to post them here). Only the last proprietor entry is given (April 2006) so I donít know the history of ownership. A price isnít given (apparently prices have been added to the register since 2000) so I donít know if that indicates no money changed hands in 2006 or perhaps the information just wasnít added to the register. A restriction was placed on the land in 1968: ďNo disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court.Ē Sounds intriguing - anyone know what it might mean?

Thereís a separate entry in the register for ďA Transformer Chamber, Shipman RoadĒ which is currently leased, I assume to an electricity company. Havenít bothered getting the register information for that one.
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 11 April, 2007 - 02:09 pm:   

It means the two owners are tenants in common.
Elizabeth25
Joined 04-03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 11 April, 2007 - 02:30 pm:   

Wow. Good work. It is a difficult situation, because it is just a strip of grass. So, nothing really can be done with it. It is basically the Methodist's church's back yard. I know it is separated by a fence. Also, I don't want to be heavy handed with a church for rubbish, that really isn't their fault.

However, my gut feeling is this. No owner, in Cheshire or Reading, is going to care about 100 yard strip of land in South London.

If Hexogon is developing a residential site, maybe (as a goodwill gesture to the community) they could do a one-off clean-up of the site. Then the Shipman Rd residents could see about doing something about the site, legally. Maybe a small allotment?

I will see if I get anything more back from Hexogon.
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 11 April, 2007 - 02:59 pm:   

Elizabeth - while you may be right that the owners won't care about this strip of land you cannot do anything to it without their consent - anything else is trespass.

Equally, for all we know, there may be on-going negotiations about the transfer of this strip of land into the Church's ownership or even possibly the Council's.

I reckon your best bet is to give the Council the Land owner's details and ask them to do something about it. Not ideal, I agree, but I suspect it's the "proper" way to do things.
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 11 April, 2007 - 04:03 pm:   

I think the Council can clear the land and charge the owners.
Blushingsnail
Joined 21-12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 11 April, 2007 - 04:54 pm:   

Maybe try the local councillors first? John Paschoud lives nearby, so he might even know the history of the site.

http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/CouncilAndDemocracy/Ele ctedRepresentatives/Councillors/PerryVale
Michael
Joined 04-03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 11 April, 2007 - 06:53 pm:   

John Paschoud has been working with the Forest Hill Society and the surrounding sites to work on ways to improve the site. Unfortunately things tend to take a while to happen but we are hopeful that somebody will take responsibility for this site.

We don't just want it tided up and then left to deteriorate, we want this area to enhance the local surrounding and by creating an open space, or at least one that has clear lines of sight, we can may the footpath to Sunderland Road safer.

John is looking at getting some council funding to improve this site as part of the £10k local area grant for Perry Vale ward.

I think it has been good to see that this area is still of concern to people beyond the Forest Hill Society as it is one of the projects we have been quietly pursuing. I am particularly aware of the state of this site as I walk past it twice every day.

Please keep expressing your views on this site, but be assured that 'off-line' discussions are continuing to make the improvements necessary.
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Thursday, 12 April, 2007 - 01:03 pm:   

Report it to Lewisham Council using this link:

http://www2.lewisham.gov.uk/lbl/transport/report_i nfo.asp
Michael
Joined 04-03-2005
Posted on Thursday, 12 April, 2007 - 06:23 pm:   

It looks like somebody was burning rubbish there today. This highlights the need for something to be done on this site.
Elizabeth25
Joined 04-03-2005
Posted on Friday, 13 April, 2007 - 10:15 am:   

Although I am happy that the FHS has been talking about this site, I am concerned with this: "Unfortunately things tend to take a while to happen but we are hopeful that somebody will take responsibility for this site."

This area has been a rubbish tip for around five years. It has become worse since the development work started on the Methodist Church.

It's proximity to a public walkway must bring it to the attention of the Council. I will try calling the Council again on this subject.
Haylands
Joined 29-09-2006
Posted on Friday, 13 April, 2007 - 11:56 am:   

I noticed the burnt area this morning. Do you know whether it was carried out by qualified pyromaniacs or amateurs? I ask this, as I also noticed some of the concrete slabs on the boundary exit have been removed and also the concrete pillars on the Sunderland Rd end of the alley. Is this the beginnings of the works to be carried out or simply youths with very little to do?
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Monday, 16 April, 2007 - 04:38 pm:   

I have just been informed that the executor responsible for this land has promised to clear and fence it within a few days. The neighbouring Methodist Church will be allowed to use the land.
Elizabeth25
Joined 04-03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 18 April, 2007 - 11:27 am:   

Well, that is good news. Hopefully
Pvp
Joined 17-03-2005
Posted on Thursday, 19 April, 2007 - 11:43 am:   

Good work everyone!
Elizabeth25
Joined 04-03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, 24 April, 2007 - 11:13 am:   

I saw this morning that some of the rubbish and the charred remains of the small bonfire had been cleared. No other sigh of clear up yet. (weeding, mowing, repairing the fench). If that is not cleared, the space will just fill up with rubbish again.
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 25 April, 2007 - 10:19 am:   

Elizabeth. I live very near this pile of rubbish and, like you, I pass it on my way to and from work every day. I agree wholeheartedly with you that the sooner it's cleared up the better.

That said, reading between the lines of Sherwood's post I imagine that what is happening is that the landowner will be granting the Church some kind of licence to use the land. That will not be free! It is probably the haggling over this that is holding up any movement on the clear up. Once they've done a deal let's hope the tidy up happens.
Michael
Joined 04-03-2005
Posted on Friday, 27 April, 2007 - 08:35 am:   

The path has now been resurfaced properly and I have heard that work on the waste ground should be happening soon, starting with a fence in the same style as round the rest of the church grounds.
Elizabeth25
Joined 04-03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 16 May, 2007 - 02:12 pm:   

Since the most popular postings seem to be 'drop in water pressure, bank holiday...' I thought I would update my own banal posting. (are we all on holiday? nothing more interesting going in Forest Hill than water pressure and planning permission) :-)

Anyway, there is now a temporary fence around the Shipman Rd Rubbish Tip, but no clearing or cleaning has been started. However, we do have a freshly paved walkway between Sunderland Rd and Shipman Rd. It makes the pathway look wider. And it has lost the old gate that the neighborhood kids once tried to turn into a toll booth.
Lette
Joined 12-02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 16 May, 2007 - 02:23 pm:   

I received a note through my door from the Methodist Church on Normanton Street saying that they are leasing the land off the Trust that owns it. I think they are the ones who have put up a temporary fence and the note said that they will be putting a more formal fence (like the one round the rest of the church) and landscaping the area. So fingers crossed it may all happen soon!
Elizabeth25
Joined 04-03-2005
Posted on Thursday, 12 July, 2007 - 10:05 am:   

Just a notice, work has started on the space behind the Methodist Church on Shipman Rd. (notice how it is no longer a 'rubbish tip') Whoever had a hand in getting rid of the trash, thank you!
Haylands
Joined 29-09-2006
Posted on Thursday, 12 July, 2007 - 11:18 am:   

I understand the church is reponsible for the clearance and will be landscaping the area. Thank the Lord!!
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Thursday, 12 July, 2007 - 11:24 am:   

Howard Wiggan (Lewisham Council's Environmental Enforcment Officer 020 8317 2170) in April told me that he had been working to persuade the owners to clear this site.
Pvp
Joined 17-03-2005
Posted on Friday, 13 July, 2007 - 08:57 am:   

Good news, full steam ahead this morning with builder intensly having a fag at 8.30 scratching his bum.

On a more serious note, I think it would be good if the original gate on one end of the alley could be incorporated in the new fence.
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Friday, 13 July, 2007 - 11:19 am:   

I walked past the site yesterday. It had been cleared. Now we are waiting for the fencing & landscaping.
Michael
Joined 04-03-2005
Posted on Friday, 03 August, 2007 - 12:21 pm:   

It is all beginning to look much better now, although not finished.
Concrete walls have been coming down and signs are that a new fence it will be in place very soon.
Pvp
Joined 17-03-2005
Posted on Monday, 06 August, 2007 - 08:53 am:   

Given what look like fence post holes, the path will not be straightened and suffer the same dog leg. Why not use the extra room to continue it on a bit??
Bosco
Joined 16-07-2004
Posted on Monday, 06 August, 2007 - 09:07 am:   

I don't see how they can straighten out the path if they don't actually own the land that comprises the path!
Lette
Joined 12-02-2007
Posted on Monday, 10 September, 2007 - 11:47 am:   

The new green fencing is now up and looks very smart. To improve the line of sight of the path, we have been in discussion with the council and will be donating the small section of land behind our shed, in the garden on the corner of Trilby Road next to the path, to the council. Hopefully this will improve the visibility for pedestrians using the path and will happen sometime soon.
Michael
Joined 04-03-2005
Posted on Monday, 10 September, 2007 - 12:29 pm:   

Lette,
Many thanks for providing the land to add to this pathway and make it work better.
Sherwood
Joined 30-03-2005
Posted on Monday, 10 September, 2007 - 01:32 pm:   

Lette,

You are a star.
Elizabeth25
Joined 04-03-2005
Posted on Monday, 10 September, 2007 - 01:51 pm:   

Wow, that is fantastic news
Pvp
Joined 17-03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, 11 September, 2007 - 09:50 am:   

Well done, very admirable behaviour!


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