I agree with BCM's views on pubs in the current climate. Times change, demographics change, styles change, taxes change, prices change, needs & wants change, the way people live their lives have changed. Unfortunately for some the 'Golden Age' of pubs is probably over, but luckily there are still pubs like the much praised Blythe Hill Tavern going strong which makes me happy, it deserves it. Others don't.

I didn't know what it was like before but the Rye Hotel is a great pub now in my opinion and all of the places that are mentioned by baggydave (apart from the Woodhouse which has been done badly in my opinion), have been refurbished to a high standard to reflect what the current demographic of the area want in a pub, it is quite clearly shown in their popularity since the refurbs, and no doubt takings, which is a must for any pub to survive in this day and age. Give people what they want (Build it and they will come).

I went to the Forest Hill Hotel a few times and always thought it could be a great place to keep open if only it could be run properly, it had so much potential, and I agree with baggydave that it's closure seemed to go unnoticed, swept under the carpet even. I did mention it on here at the time, that, along with a few other strange goings on with it under the radar and until now has continued to be overlooked.

Back on topic though, i'm all for a decent place to go for a drink (and food) in the area as it is something we are seriously lacking. The Honor Oak was showing a lot of potential but unfortunately it was all style (on the outside) and no substance, I couldn't believe the incompetence of the place when I last went in there, it was just not run well, no effort was made to create a welcoming atmosphere, the staff were useless the choices of drink were limited, and I even had to ask the barman to put some music on on one occasion as it had stopped about 15 minutes prior, there were about 8 people in there at the time. I never went again, i'm quite fickle like that.

If a pub is done properly I really believe it will be a success so please do try, I will sign any petition, form, website signup going. I was sat outside Hop Scotch in the summer as ridiculously that place was the best place to have a pint in the area and just sat watching the amount and type of people walking past, people may be surprised to hear, there are lots, they all just go home though, there's nowhere decent to go.

I strongly believe however, for a pub these days to be a success it does have to offer something a bit more (especially a pub the size of The Honor Oak) , which is why 'Gastro' pubs are a success, as long as the food is good and the atmosphere is right people will frequent the place, it doesn't have to just be good pub food (Burgers, Steaks, Roasts etc) it could be pizza (The Gowlett, The Half Moon, The Actress). Just something, people would come along way to spend their money.

I still think The Old Bank needs sorting as a priority, and if The General Napier had an injection of something new, Honor Oak would be a great place to have a drink. (alas, The Chandos is a lost cause for the majority of forum readers I fear).

Good luck