Oyster Cards and FH Station
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ryananglem
Posts: 167
Joined: Apr 2009
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24-11-2009 05:11 PM
Ahhhh sorry. I dont know the answer to that. I only found out they (station to station season tickets) existed recently, but I would guess that the answer is no - because that is a national rail initative and we are moving into the clutches of the tfl/tube world.
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rbmartin
Posts: 1,090
Joined: Nov 2007
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24-11-2009 07:22 PM
ITSO smartcards will be the next step for National Rail tickets in the near future. London Overground along with the other train operating companies which are part of the national rail network will be rolling them out in the next two years.
It's also worth remembering that despite Forest Hill now part of TfL, after May you'll still be able to purchase the full range of National Rail tickets/railcards in addition to the TfL tickets.
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michael
Posts: 3,261
Joined: Mar 2005
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24-11-2009 08:25 PM
question is whether you can use station to staion tickets?
My understanding from previous discussions is that station to station season tickets will only be available on paper. The alternative is to get a travelcard, which costs substantially more.
I will continue to use a paper annual season ticket to Waterloo and user Oyster PAYG for other journeys. So the question will then be - is it cheaper to use PAYG Oyster or the Gold Card discount for trains from London Bridge to Catford. I expect with a gold card discount it will work out cheaper than Oyster.
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Sherwood
Posts: 1,414
Joined: Mar 2005
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nasaroc
Posts: 144
Joined: Jun 2005
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30-11-2009 05:28 PM
Barcar - below is the answer to your question from TfL. I hope this clarifies things - although you are going to be disappointed that you will not be able to transfer your existing paper season "station to station only" tickets to Oystercard. Obviously, when your existing season ticket expires you will be able to buy a new season Oystercard tailored to your requirements:
"The extension of Oyster pay as you go to National Rail services in London will not change the products that can be held on an Oystercard so unfortunately passengers with a paper National Rail point to point season ticket will not be able to transfer it onto an Oystercard. It is only Travelcards (i.e. that involve travel on TfL services - e.g. Tube, Bus, Tram, DLR, London Overground) and pay as you go credit that can be loaded on an Oystercard.
Should National Rail customers wish to switch from paper Travelcard season tickets to Oyster Travelcard season tickets, I would imagine that the only feasible way is to surrender the existing one for refund to your National Rail station and buy a new Travelcard on Oyster. This may come with a cost so depending on the validity of the ticket, it may be better to wait until it has expired. However you would need to check at your local National Rail station."
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nasaroc
Posts: 144
Joined: Jun 2005
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07-12-2009 03:52 PM
It appears that Travelcards will be on sale from the station. Here is a clarification from TfL:
"Passengers will be able to renew Oyster Travelcards at selected National Rail stations. At stations recently taken over by London Overground - New Cross Gate to West Croydon - passengers will be able to purchase weekly or monthly Travelcards on Oyster."
However, don't all rush down to the station to renew your Travelcard. Ticketing machinery has yet to be supplied to local stations and so you will not be able to renew cards until "sometime after January"!
Now admittedly, you can buy Oyster online, by post, telephone and from 3,700 outlets across London. But is it really too much to ask that rail authorities could get their act together to ensure that you can actually purchase Oystercards at stations to coincide with their introduction?!?
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rbmartin
Posts: 1,090
Joined: Nov 2007
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07-12-2009 04:07 PM
What about Oyster PAYG customers? Will we have to top-up at a local newsagent beforehand when the scheme is rolled out on Jan 2nd?
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junegapi
Posts: 106
Joined: Nov 2007
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07-12-2009 06:22 PM
If your Oyster PAYG card has insufficient money in it to pay for your journey, YES, you'll need to top it up, somewhere that advertises Top-Ups. Otherwise you will not be able to travel legally.
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nasaroc
Posts: 144
Joined: Jun 2005
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02-01-2010 12:50 PM
The introduction of Oystercards starts on Monday at local stations. So is everything in place for this momentous event?
Not really.
Many passengers will expect, not unreasonably, to be able to update Oyster and Travelcards at the station. They can't do this because stations have yet to be equipped with ticket machines to carry out this task. This is a fairly amazing state of affairs considering the authorities have been discussing the introduction of Oyster at suburban stations for 2/3 years. Of course, passengers can buy and update cards at many local newsagents but is it really too much to ask that railway stations supply and update their own tickets? How would you react if you went to a cinema or theatre and found that you couldn't buy a ticket on the door?
Many passengers will also hold, and want to continue to hold, paper "station to station" Travelcards. These allow journeys from, for example, FH to LB but exclude the Underground. I'd bet that most people with such cards will fully expect to be able to swap these paper tickets for plastic Oystercards when their existing card expires. But they won't be able to do this: station to station tickets will continue to be offered only as paper tickets and not incorporated into the Oystercard system. Many regular commuters -those wishing to travel to LB or CX, for example - without using additional buses or the Underground will not be able to join the "Oyster revolution" which has been promised. This is going to be a very significant percentage of local passengers.
I think that we should expect many passengers turning up at local stations tomorrow to react with total bafflement if not anger to the "arrangements" which are on offer for the introduction of Oyster.
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rbmartin
Posts: 1,090
Joined: Nov 2007
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02-01-2010 01:19 PM
Oyster PAYG commences TODAY on all National Rail services in London.
The gates at FH and HOP should be enabled to accept PAYG regardless if the equipment for the ticket office and the software for the self-service machines isn't ready. If that isn't the case, then hopefully one of our commuters will tell us.
From today the cheap day return paper tickets within the London area have been axed, which means Oyster is the only way you can get the cheapest fare, otherwise it'll cost you ?5.30 for the anytime return to travel to LB and CX, however the off-peak paper one day travelcard will still be available.
I'm sure Mayor Boris will enjoy the increased revenue from unsuspecting passengers hoping to go to into town this weekend from his Tfl managed stations along our line.
I expect the local newsagents in Dartmouth Road and London Road will see an increase in trade until this mess at the station can be resolved.
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PVP
Posts: 271
Joined: Mar 2005
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02-01-2010 01:20 PM
This is fantastic, I do believe the new ticket machine was installed in the past 6 months... but oyster top up was not considered. Hurrah, time to wait for another machine to be installed in a few months!
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michael
Posts: 3,261
Joined: Mar 2005
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02-01-2010 03:50 PM
Personally I am really pleased that I can use my Oyster PAYG on trains across South London and do not have to queue up for a paper ticket for each journey (although it might be cheaper to do so, to get the gold card discount).
My annual season ticket to London Bridge/Waterloo/Charing Cross/Victoria is paper, which means I can get a cheaper ticket rather than having to buy an annual travelcard. I can put up with the incovenience of a paper ticket to save ?300 per year, but for those who can't - you can buy an annual travelcard.
My wife will benefit much more than me as she will no longer have to pay more than the daily travelcard limit on travel on trains as well as buses. Until today she had to pay the cost of the train on top of any bus fares she paid during the day.
It is possible to get a PAYG auto-top-up, so that whenever your balance goes below a certain amount your Oyster is topped up. This means that you never need to buy another ticket at the station!
Overall the Oyster revolution is a step in the right direction and I am pleased that PAYG is now accepted from Forest Hill.
The big question will be in May: What will be the cost of travel from FH to Westminster via Canada Water? Will it be a single tube journey or the cost of National Rail (to zone 2 or 1) and then an additional underground fare from zone 2 or 1 to Westminster. It may seem like a silly question, but apparently a decision has not yet been made!
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rbmartin
Posts: 1,090
Joined: Nov 2007
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02-01-2010 04:03 PM
I went to East Dulwich station which is still owned by Southern and the ticket machine is fully oyster enabled to purchase PAYG and travelcards.
The irony that a private company can be ready at the point of sale and not our publically run station.
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rbmartin
Posts: 1,090
Joined: Nov 2007
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02-01-2010 05:47 PM
Just checked the auto top-up function on the website, fantastic. FH and HOP are included in the scheme. I've used it from London Bridge tube in the past to top up when I touch the reader at the gates.
Thanks for the tip Michael.
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Applespider
Posts: 285
Joined: Feb 2006
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02-01-2010 09:45 PM
I have a zone 1-2 Travelcard. Doe anyone know yet whether the rail version of PAYG works as the Tube ones do if you are simply travelling outside your zone?
If I'm on a Tube and go to zone 3, then I just get charged an extension fare (the price between the zone 2 and zone 3 station) - will the same apply on the trains if I touch in at FH and out at London Bridge?
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rbmartin
Posts: 1,090
Joined: Nov 2007
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02-01-2010 09:52 PM
If you have a season travelcard and wish to travel further on National Rail services, you'll need to get an Oyster Extension Permit which at the moment you can get from TfL Ticket outlets and a limited selection of National Rail stations. Just having Oyster PAYG in addition to your travelcard will still result in a penalty fare without the permit.
More info at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/13727.aspx
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Applespider
Posts: 285
Joined: Feb 2006
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02-01-2010 10:20 PM
Thanks for the link and the info. I must have missed that when it was announced.
What a pain though - doesn't really give as much benefit as I'd hoped. I'm guessing that until Forest Hill gets the equipment to do top-ups, they're not going to be able to do the extension permit either. Might be easier still just buying a ticket to a zone 2 station with the gold card discount!
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rbmartin
Posts: 1,090
Joined: Nov 2007
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02-01-2010 10:25 PM
Once the new equipment is installed, you can get an OEP from FH or HOP as they're managed by London Overground. The other disadvantage is you have to get a new OEP after each journey. This won't be a problem once the ELL starts later in the year as you'll be able to travel down to West Croydon without the permit as it's classed as a TfL journey.
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Applespider
Posts: 285
Joined: Feb 2006
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02-01-2010 10:42 PM
Ah well... I'll resign myself to continuing to stand in queues until then.
Really - could they have come up with a more complicated system for, let's face it, their customers who are probably the least likely to be fare-dodgers!
I'm still a little confused on whether I need a OEP if I decided to go from zones 3-5 (nowhere near my zone 1-2) or whether that would just come off my regular PAYG balance.
While I see some people are advocating loading an OEP on if you think you might need it, it seems to potentially cause problems if you end up not being able to touch out at any point - which given I travel to Denmark Hill which has no barriers - means it's a no go.
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rbmartin
Posts: 1,090
Joined: Nov 2007
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02-01-2010 10:48 PM
You only need an OEP if you're travelling from within the zones on your travelcard. So for example for you, FH to Croydon would be a normal PAYG journey.
What will be frustrating is after the ELL arrives, you won't need an OEP to travel to West Croydon, but you will need one to travel to East Croydon as it's considered a National Rail journey.
Unless you fancy the annoyance of getting an OEP, it'll be a regular inconvenience for Zone 1-3 travelcard users this year wishing to travel south of Sydenham.
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