Michael
what I am interested in is whether they will make a pre election commitment to the project. If they won't then we can read what we choose into that?

As I remember, the money the Council "found down the back of the sofa" for the pools was put there by Central Government...

Does anyone know whether this money is guaranteed to be in Lewisham's capital budget, or if it might still be possible for a new national administration, looking to make cuts, to withdraw it? And if so, what the consequences for the project would be if that happened?

Should the question to prospective reps be more along the lines of "Will you guarantee that the pools development in it's current form will not be included in any Council cuts package?"

(Hoping someone will come back and tell me the money is already in the bank, and my questions are irrelevant!)

I was at the recent Stakeholders' Meeting on the pools and thought it might be useful to represent the discussion as far as possible.

We were shown PowerPoint slides of the current pools design very similar to those shown in the recent exhibition by the the architects, Roberts Limbrick. If I had a copy I would post it on here, but I can give a brief verbal description.

The superintendent's blcok is retained more or less unchanged (on the outside). The new pools building wraps around it to the West and North. The building will have two entrances at ground level. The North entrance is across a new path cutting through some of the lawn of Kingswear House and the old pocket park. The North side will also have a seating area for the cafe. This entrance will provide level access. The East side (in front of the old building) will have an entrance and exit which can be used by coaches, provision for bicycle storage, access for plant and a disabled parking space. There is then a wheelchair ramp replacing the old steps to the doors in the old facade.

On the ground floor, there is a learner pool to the South and the main pool to the North, with the changing area in between. The changing area features single sex group changing rooms and a small changing village. The design has a cubic block to the North which, at ground floor level contains a cafe. There is a long "mall" joining the North and East entrances, with a reception area. The ground floor of the old block is mainly occupied by toilets (male, female and disabled), the reception area (which will overlook both entrances) and offices. This floor has lifts and stairs to the first floor. There is further plant located at the rear of the building on the gorund floor, in the existing basement of the old building, on the first and second floors of the new cube and on the second floor of the new cube.

The first floor has a "mall" similar to downstairs, although the North end has a community room seating about 30 people or so). The area above the changing area is taken by the gym, which is quite large (50 stations of machines I think). There is a small and large studio (for dance and so on), above the learner pool, which can be joined using a sliding partition. The area above the main pool is empty, as this pool hall is double height.

The North and South elevations of the building will be glazed with a mixture of transparent glass and a translucent material lower down. The "wavy roof" form of the Allies and Morrison design has been retained and the main pool hall features some roof lighting. There is a new feature in the form of the cube referred to above, which sits on the North East corner of the building. This has plant in the basement, first and second floors and a cafe at ground floor level.

If I have got the dates right, the Council were hoping to apply for planning permission tomorrow. The trees in the pocket park have already been cut down and demolition work on the old pool halls will start any day now, with hoardings going up and some features of the old building being removed to keep and asbestos being removed.

The above was intended to be neutral facts. The discussion at the meeting focussed around the changing areas, where there was agreement that the current compromise seems acceptable.

More controversial was the new cube. There is definitely a view that the bulk of the plant and putting it at the front is unfortunate. The resultant block is both large and prominent, and sadly, the cafe terrace will be mainly North facing. There was a good deal of discussion about where or how the plant could be shrunk or moved, but in this matter, as in most others, it was clear that no major revisions would be undertaken prior to a planning application. There was some discussion of surface treatments of the new cube with white or coloured render, timber or terra cotta cladding. The mood appeared to be that a random pattern of terra cotta cladding was preferred. There was no consensus about signage: some people wanted no sign and others a more prominent one.

There was some disappointment that the coach pull in and other vehicle access on the East front have made it very difficult to achieve any kind of greening or planting of this area. There was also concern about the mixture of people and vehicles which could occur on this side from time to time.

There were concerns about the reduction int he amount of natural light coming through the roof: the size and number of rooflights has been reduced. The nice idea of a children's play area adjacent to the cafe terrace also appears to have been lost. Plans for the treatment fo the South return of the existing facade building do not seem to have been given much attention. Many people welcomed the loss of the glass porch on the East front (of the old building).

I visited the pools today (Wednesday 5th May). Hoardings have gone up all round the pools site. The slates have been removed from most of the pools hall roofs. There is a nibbler-type JCB there which has started demolishing the nasty garage and there are signs of material being reomved from the interior of the pools (old fridges and bins).

So work has started...

Just in time for an election!

Thought a couple of quick pics might be in order. Just as they are giving the graffiti boards a nice coat of blue.
       
Nice day today

A PlanningAlerts.com email just came in:

The planning applciation for the new pool is available to view on the Lewisham Website

Key documents are:
The front and side elevation. Which helpfully allow you to switch off/on view of parts of the building - so you can understand the materials
Ground floor plan
First floor plan
Design and Access Statement
Planning statement

And if you want to know what happened to your feedback in the last consultation - you might be able to find it at the back of Statement of Community Involvement (I could not find my comments which I emailed to them so that they did not lose them).

Hopefully this scheme will meet with general approval from local residents so that building can commence quickly.

Having had a look at the plans, they seem very similar to the consultation plans.

There are a few changes (some for the better, some not)

• The cafe extension is to be clad in terracotta strips of assorted earth hues.
• The reception area has been redesigned to improve flow. Not sure about the railing around the counter.
• The Cafe terrace now wraps around the front of the buliding
• The third (rear) wave of the roof is a sedum roof (which should soften the visual impact for those living on Derby Hill Crescent
• The fitness assessment office now overlooks the pools and gets natural light
• The diabled ramp at the front has been redesigned and some greenery has been introduced
• The lift is half the size of the pre-consultation design
• We seem to have lost the folding wall between the two studios, but gained a folding wall for the community space
• The dry changing area has been modified significantly to minimise plumbing. The windows at the front of the superintendent's block will now be blocked by lockers.
• There is no seating on the 'boulevard'
• They make extensive use of Kalwall - an obscure, translucent material. You can get a feel for the look from Kalwall's photo gallery.
• Basement of the superintendent's block is used for pool boiler and chemical equipment. There is an extended basement under the "mall" for the filtration equipment.
• There is no solar electricity or heating of the pools due to the waved roof and its orientation.
• Air Source Heat Pumps will use the heat generated in the fitness suites to preheat the water for the showers.
• The boilers will also be used to generate electricity (CHP)
• Rainwater will be harvested to flush the WCs. The rainwater will be stored in a tank under the pocket park.
  

Here is the artist's impression of what it will look like

I'm sure I was not the only person to suggest something towards this type of design, using colours that reflect the terracotta and sandstone in the library. This will break up the scale of the block at the front by using small blocks of complimentary colours. The important part of this is to reflect the high quality design of the library rather than the red brick pools or Louise House. Good work by the architects in my opinion.

new forester, is it possible to post the pic so that it can be clicked on and enlarged? sorry to be greedy!

This might work
   

I'm very glad we are having a new pool and no doubt I shall come to love the building in due course. But on the basis of the artist's impression, I think it looks rather ugly.The clash of styles is just too strident ( if it's meant to be amusingly post -modern, I don't think it succeeds) and the whole shape of the thing is, in my view, awkward, inharmonious and anxiety-provoking.

thanks, Michael. I think the cladding succeeds, at least from the picture, in tying the new bit in with the old quite successfully. Nice

On the whole, I think the architects have done a grand job of fitting a viable leisure centre into a difficult site.

I've only three questions:

1. Unless I have misread the drawings, the site is fenced off from Louise House and the Library. Clearly, while Louise House is out of service, some perimeter security is necessary. However, if the Centre works and is heavily used, some related use of Louise House might be possible (for example, use of the old laundry block as a second studio, use of the main building for general meeting space, freeing up space in the Centre for more fitness activity etc, therapy rooms etc), and it is possible that such uses could generate an income stream which might go a little way to bringing Louise House back into viable use (might!). Even leaving aside this possibility, it might be useful from the start to have pedestrian access within the 'campus' between the library and the pools which might create more crossover use.

2. Did I at some stage see plans for tables and chairs outside the cafe? If this is to be done, some attention needs to be paid to the risk that outside opening hours these might become an attractive venue for street drinking and the like. One needs to be sure that the site is very accessible when open, but not when closed.

3 Parking on Dartmouth Road. Given many will arrive by car, I could see that parking on Dartmouth Road could become a problem after 6:30pm when restrictions end and the centre will be most heavily used. Either an extension of controlled hours, or double lining for some way might be desirable. (I'm being selfish as I live on Dartmouth Road and I could see my car blocked in every night by heavy parking). A residents' parking zone would be another option

Sorry nevermodern. There are lots of views in the Deisgna and Access statement which michael linked to earlier.

These pictures illustrate the differences as a result of the consultation

larger pic of Ground Floor


larger pic of First Floor

I think it's rather handsome. I like the contrast between new and old. Unlike many here I think it's better to make it even more evident rather than trying to camouflage it with terracotta tiles, but all in all a job well done. I still prefer the curved frontage though on one of the other plans with the wavy roof showing at the front.

The signage looks handsome too.

I hope Lewisham don't start cluttering it up with loads of health and safety and poorly designed opening signs etc.

Louise House is tangentially relevant, as David Whiting notices. The latest position on that building can be followed by visiting this link:

http://www.louisehouse.notlong.com